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Why are there so many frum anti-vaxxers?
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dancingqueen




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 10:55 pm
I’m very curious about this phenomenon. I didn’t know there were so many until the recent outbreaks in frum communities and then seeing the multitude of anti-vaxxer posts. (Which are almost all amother).

Anyone have any thoughts as to why this is?
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amother




Plum
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:00 pm
To you it may seem that there are so many frum antivaxxers, perhaps because you see and speak to frum yidden more than random non Jews from all over the US, or maybe because we live so concentrated in one area so it seems like a lot. But in reality there are thousands of non Jewish antivaxxers all over the us who have never even seen a Jew. Jewish antivaxxers are the tiny minority in the antivax community.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:03 pm
PEACH magazine and aishes chayal hotline

Lots of health food stores and alternative medicine practioners

General distrust of government and doctors

Possibly more genetic disorders in Jewish population that up the risk of adverse vaccine reactions.

A view of medicine that we should not take risks for diseases that we might never encounter.
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amother




Babyblue
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:12 pm
Poor science education.
A sense of pride about being outside the mainstream.
A distrust of the larger society.
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amother




Burgundy
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:13 pm
Its hard to tell if there's a lot or not. It seems to me to be a very small percentage, except they're very vocal. They're not content to not give their kids shots, they want everyone else to understand their viewpoint and to agree with them and to pat their back admiring how intelligent they are. Since that isn't happening, they get even louder and contentious....

Sorry, antivaxxers, don't mean to bash anyone personally, that just the impression you've been giving the rest of us.....


As someone who has a number of immunocompromised immediate family members, I personally feel everyone should have the right to make their own informed decisions about whether to give vaccinations to their family - with one caveat - when theres an outbreak, KEEP YOUR CHILDREN HOME!!!! Not doing that and shoving it in the face of the DOH to show them up, has badly misfired unfortunately. Down the line, this will have repercussions and we will all pay the price.....
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amother




Plum
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:14 pm
southernbubby wrote:
PEACH magazine and aishes chayal hotline


Possibly more genetic disorders in Jewish population that up the risk of adverse vaccine reactions.

A view of medicine that we should not take risks for diseases that we might never encounter.
[b]

Many of us never heard of peach or the hotline until recently so....

Regarding the genetic disorders, you bring up a great point. We have an issue with the one size fits all formula for Jews, African Americans, Chinese, boys, girls, infants, teens, pregnant women, children with chromosomal abnormalities, people with family history of any disease etc etc etc etc
Different people may have different genetic components, physiological makeup and medical history which may be cause for concern regarding vaccination. No study was ever done to determine whether every single dose of every single vaccine is compatible with the genetic makeup of the individual person and/or group of people. So yes, we are wary. And rightfully so.
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amother




Olive
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:17 pm
southernbubby wrote:
PEACH magazine and aishes chayal hotline

Lots of health food stores and alternative medicine practioners

General distrust of government and doctors

Possibly more genetic disorders in Jewish population that up the risk of adverse vaccine reactions.

A view of medicine that we should not take risks for diseases that we might never encounter.


And the tendency to apply religious behavior to other considerations.
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amother




Plum
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:20 pm
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
Its hard to tell if there's a lot or not. It seems to me to be a very small percentage, except they're very vocal. They're not content to not give their kids shots, they want everyone else to understand their viewpoint and to agree with them and to pat their back admiring how intelligent they are. Since that isn't happening, they get even louder and contentious....

Sorry, antivaxxers, don't mean to bash anyone personally, that just the impression you've been giving the rest of us.....


As someone who has a number of immunocompromised immediate family members, I personally feel everyone should have the right to make their own informed decisions about whether to give vaccinations to their family - with one caveat - when theres an outbreak, KEEP YOUR CHILDREN HOME!!!! Not doing that and shoving it in the face of the DOH to show them up, has badly misfired unfortunately. Down the line, this will have repercussions and we will all pay the price.....


Wrong. We don't give a **** whether you think we are intelligent, stupid, ludicrous or brilliant. All we want is for you to leave us alone and let us make our own decisions regarding the children we love. And you make yours. Stop harassing, bullying, shaming, and calling us murderers. My unvaccinated perfectly healthy (b''h) children are not a threat to your children. During an outbreak most of us kept our children home. You chose to take note of the small percentage who didn't. Ok. Your choice.
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amother




Olive
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:22 pm
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
[b]

Many of us never heard of peach or the hotline until recently so....

Regarding the genetic disorders, you bring up a great point. We have an issue with the one size fits all formula for Jews, African Americans, Chinese, boys, girls, infants, teens, pregnant women, children with chromosomal abnormalities, people with family history of any disease etc etc etc etc
Different people may have different genetic components, physiological makeup and medical history which may be cause for concern regarding vaccination. No study was ever done to determine whether every single dose of every single vaccine is compatible with the genetic makeup of the individual person and/or group of people. So yes, we are wary. And rightfully so.


Neither are antibiotics, or any drugs for that matter. And neither are all the health products that the health stores push as safe.

And if the concern about genetic makeup is high, perhaps we need to urgently revamp our shidduch system. Like marrying like creates much more issues than vaccines do. So maybe the higher rates in the Jewish world is unrelated to vaccines & is rather related to marrying those only in our circles.
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amother




Plum
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:24 pm
amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:
Poor science education.


Right. Because someone who is Jewish can't read. Or has zero reading comprehension and critical thinking skills. They are only busy cooking chicken soup and cholent. Right. Rolling Eyes
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amother




Royalblue
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:25 pm
I wont out myself here but im already a third generation antivaxer so no peach and no hotline , it started out as a philosophical objection going against being forced to inject unnatural foreign matter for the sake officially of becoming healthier. didnt make sense from a hashkafadik and common sense angle. We believe a perfect Gd created humans perfect except male babies need bris. didnt make sense to say He made them with missing vit k and missing antibodies. injecting disease to avoid disease is trying to outsmart Gd and not in line with how we yidden view Gd. the same mentality thats against dor yeshorim. lo sachakor achar hoasidos. this is imo a true example of a religious belief even though its not judaism who says this but one persons take on it. they lived their whole life in line with their belief, not pick and choose. then as the schedule grew the resistance grew. much later came the awareness of adverse reactions.
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amother




Olive
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:27 pm
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
Right. Because someone who is Jewish can't read. Or has zero reading comprehension and critical thinking skills. They are only busy cooking chicken soup and cholent. Right. Rolling Eyes


Because some schools don't teach science. So not everyone gets a science education. And critical thinking skills needs a strong foundation or background in that area to utilize properly.
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amother




Plum
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:28 pm
amother [ Olive ] wrote:
Neither are antibiotics, or any drugs for that matter. And neither are all the health products that the health stores push as safe.

And if the concern about genetic makeup is high, perhaps we need to urgently revamp our shidduch system. Like marrying like creates much more issues than vaccines do. So maybe the higher rates in the Jewish world is unrelated to vaccines & is rather related to marrying those only in our circles.


You may be right about the antibiotics and other drugs. Difference is, it is not being mandated. My kid can go to school if I heal her ear infection with garlic and vit c and choose not to use the antibiotics. I can make a choice whether taking the drug is important enough to be ready to take the risks associated with it. And besides, you and I know that what vaccines do in the body is way more complicated than most other drugs. Specifically in terms of dormant genetic and auto immune disorders.
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amother




Babyblue
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:32 pm
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
Right. Because someone who is Jewish can't read. Or has zero reading comprehension and critical thinking skills. They are only busy cooking chicken soup and cholent. Right. Rolling Eyes


Among Jews, the antivax movement is significantly stronger in communities that don't prioritize secular education (and discourage critical thinking outside of gemara). I think there's a connection.
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amother




Royalblue
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:33 pm
amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:
Among Jews, the antivax movement is significantly stronger in communities that don't prioritize secular education (and discourage critical thinking outside of gemara). I think there's a connection.

shtuyot, false
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amother




Olive
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:40 pm
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
You may be right about the antibiotics and other drugs. Difference is, it is not being mandated. My kid can go to school if I heal her ear infection with garlic and vit c and choose not to use the antibiotics. I can make a choice whether taking the drug is important enough to be ready to take the risks associated with it. And besides, you and I know that what vaccines do in the body is way more complicated than most other drugs. Specifically in terms of dormant genetic and auto immune disorders.


No, I don't know what vaccines do are more complicated than most other drugs. It's just a very minute dose of the disease itself mixed with harmless agents (as are other drugs mixed with harmless agents). So if you're that fearful of a minute dose causing such harm, consider actually coming down with a full blown version of it

Diseases affect people in different ways. Some people get mild versions and some people get hit with full blown lethal attacks. Maybe those people who suffer adverse effects of the vaccine, would be the ones not surviving contracting that very same disease.

So if those very same people do away with herd immunity, they may essentially be bringing about their own doom in the future.
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amother




Ecru
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:53 pm
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
Wrong. We don't give a **** whether you think we are intelligent, stupid, ludicrous or brilliant. All we want is for you to leave us alone and let us make our own decisions regarding the children we love. And you make yours. Stop harassing, bullying, shaming, and calling us murderers. My unvaccinated perfectly healthy (b''h) children are not a threat to your children. During an outbreak most of us kept our children home. You chose to take note of the small percentage who didn't. Ok. Your choice.


Because that "small Percentage" as you call it wreaked havoc on the lives of parents of children too young to be vaccinated!
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amother




Plum
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:53 pm
amother [ Olive ] wrote:
No, I don't know what vaccines do are more complicated than most other drugs. It's just a very minute dose of the disease itself mixed with harmless agents (as are other drugs mixed with harmless agents). So if you're that fearful of a minute dose causing such harm, consider actually coming down with a full blown version of it

Diseases affect people in different ways. Some people get mild versions and some people get hit with full blown lethal attacks. Maybe those people who suffer adverse effects of the vaccine, would be the ones not surviving contracting that very same disease.

So if those very same people do away with herd immunity, they may essentially be bringing about their own doom in the future.


For the millionth time, most of us are not concerned about the minute amount of the virus in the vaccine. It's the other harmful agents we are concerned about. Agents which cross the blood brain barrier, cell tissue which replicate over and over again creating a perfect breeding ground for cancerous growth etc.

So no dear, these agents are not harmless. Especially when you are injecting it, not ingesting.

Oh, and the theoretical concept of herd immunity through vaccination applies to measles, mumps, rubella and polio. Diphtheria and pertussis vaccine do not prevent transmission. And the rest of the mandated ones are non communicable at all or via casual contact.
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amother




Blue
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:57 pm
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
[b]

Many of us never heard of peach or the hotline until recently so....

Regarding the genetic disorders, you bring up a great point. We have an issue with the one size fits all formula for Jews, African Americans, Chinese, boys, girls, infants, teens, pregnant women, children with chromosomal abnormalities, people with family history of any disease etc etc etc etc
Different people may have different genetic components, physiological makeup and medical history which may be cause for concern regarding vaccination. No study was ever done to determine whether every single dose of every single vaccine is compatible with the genetic makeup of the individual person and/or group of people. So yes, we are wary. And rightfully so.

This.
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amother




Ecru
 

Post  Wed, Dec 11 2019, 11:58 pm
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
For the millionth time, most of us are not concerned about the minute amount of the virus in the vaccine. It's the other harmful agents we are concerned about. Agents which cross the blood brain barrier, cell tissue which replicate over and over again creating a perfect breeding ground for cancerous growth etc.

So no dear, these agents are not harmless. Especially when you are injecting it, not ingesting.

Oh, and the theoretical concept of herd immunity through vaccination applies to measles, mumps, rubella and polio. Diphtheria and pertussis vaccine do not prevent transmission. And the rest of the mandated ones are non communicable at all or via casual contact.


Are you saying you don't believe in the bolded?
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