I'm speechless | Imamother

leah233

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 12:38 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

Although some are reclaiming that term, it is still considered offensive.

What is possibly offensive about that term?

It merely describes a physical condition. Is Down Syndrome offensive too?

But I'll edit it. Do you (she)mean an androgynous?

shyshira

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 12:44 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

I'm questioning if the origin of this demand for tampons in the men's room is from an organization representing disabled people, or representing LGBTQ people.

I think "demand" is an overstatement - but its coming from the ACLU. They advocate for all sorts of groups.

Its probably useful to read what they have to say, in addition to the Fox reporting.

https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbt.....oint/

sushilover

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 12:51 pm

roses wrote:

Perhaps people aren't aware of intersex conditions. I took the time to educate them.

And no, it's not a ridiculous situation for a girl to be born with a p-nis. Or other gender and genital variations. It is an unfortunate, difficult, challenging situation. With lifelong implications.

Is it "ridiculous" when a child is born with a cleft palate?
Is it "ridiculous" when a child is born with Down Syndrome?
Is it "ridiculous" when a child is born missing a limb?

So why are people with intersex conditions worthy of ridicule?
Why are any of Hashem's creations worthy of ridicule?

No one.
Not. A. Single. Poster has said that intersex people are worthy of ridicule. If you choose to pretend that that's what Pause meant, go ahead. But we won't join you in your fantasy.

gamanit

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 12:54 pm

Raisin wrote:

A more serious issue is that there are never enough women's restrooms. I have never once in my life bought a tampon from a machine. (a real woman knows you can use wadded tissues until you get home, and who has the right change anyway?) But I have waited online plenty of times while there was no line in the mens restrooms.

This is a perfect example of equal not being fair. They make the men's restrooms and women's restrooms the same size when really since men can use urinals and women need stalls, the women's room needs to be larger, with more stalls. They should aim for an equal amount of "stations"- meaning stalls + urinals in men's restrooms should equal number of stalls in women's restrooms.

chanatron1000

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 12:54 pm

leah233 wrote:

What is possibly offensive about that term?

It merely describes a physical condition. Is Down Syndrome offensive too?

But I'll edit it. Do you (she)mean an androgynous?

Merely describing a physical condition doesn't automatically make it not offensive. Words like "cripple" or "midget" merely describe a physical condition, and they are still commonly considered to be offensive.

meyerlemon44

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 1:05 pm

roses wrote:

Due to these intersex conditions, there are all kinds of variations in terms of gender presentation and expression, based on hormonal differences, genital development, and other factors. The issue is extremely complex.

I know that people like to use "bathroom issues" to mock "liberal agendas". But the reality is that the issues are heavily medical as well- in addition to psychological- and inclusion of all people, body types, and sensitivity to their needs is the marker of a compassionate society.

Rachmanim. Baishonim. Gomlei chassodim.

There is no such thing as a medical condition where a person has the ability to menstruate and a aiver. This is called 'functional hermaphroditism' in animals, and while other intersex conditions certainly exist in humans, this one does not.

roses

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 1:21 pm

meyerlemon44 wrote:

I'm aware of that.
The condition that was mocked as "ridiculous" was a "woman with a p--nis".

Whether or not urinals are necessary is besides the point. The point is that this condition exists and people need to be sensitive to their language around these topics.

allthingsblue

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 1:24 pm

roses wrote:

To be fair, the poster who mocked the "woman with a p-nis" certainly did not intend to offend the rare woman who suffers from this. She certainly referred to women or men who choose to transition or cross dress or what have you.

sushilover

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 1:31 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

And when I said the situation was "ridiculous", I specifically said that what is ridiculous is the idea that people think men can be women and women can be men.
I literally don't know how I could have been clearer.

Jeanette

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 1:35 pm

meyerlemon44 wrote:

This is not accurate.

An XX female with ambiguous genitalia can have an enlarged clitorus that appears like a p3nis and still have menstrual periods.

leah233

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 1:43 pm

Jeanette wrote:

This is not accurate.

An XX female with ambiguous genitalia can have an enlarged clitorus that appears like a p3nis and still have menstrual periods.

The key words is appears like.

They do not have male organs. Only female ones that appear abnormal.

roses

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 1:48 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

I don't understand why it would be okay to mock people who choose to transition. No one can ever understand the underlying reasons for someone else's choice to transition, except for their medical and mental health team. There are many valid medical and psychological reasons for such a choice. I just don't understand why people feel it's ok to ridicule another human being who faces challenges they may not understand?

allthingsblue

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 1:48 pm

A biological woman with a p-nis would use the ladies room, where there would be tampons if she needed.
So this whole tangent about women with p-nis or enlarged cl-toris etc is irrelevant.

Which male has a menstrual period, other than woman who turns herself into a male?

allthingsblue

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 1:50 pm

roses wrote:

She's not mocking them. She's humorously protesting the fact that other people's choices are being foisted upon her as de facto lifestyle.

There are hardly any medical or phsycological reasons for transition. If anything, there are many reasons not to.

roses

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 1:55 pm

sushilover wrote:

I don't think this is such a clear argument, because there are many people that, due to their intersex conditions, don't fit neatly into any one category. Not everyone is a man or a woman . Some people are both. Some people are none. Some people start as one when they are assigned at birth, but chromosomally they are the opposite s-x, and transition later. It's complicated.

roses

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 2:02 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

And I am stating that a humorous protest is a form of mocking and degrading a person who has a complex personal history and/or medical status. Making a joke at other people's expense is by definition ridicule.

Flip Flops

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 2:19 pm

Roses, to clarify what we are all saying because you don't seem to understand:
Nobody deserves to be mocked because of the way they were born. Hashem made people with differences and just because their zxual makeup is different they don't deserve to be shunned or shamed.
But, there are rules in place and you don't have a free pass to do what you'd like because you " feel that way". If a man has feelings for another man, it doesn't mean he can go ahead and act upon it. If a women feels like her body is more male than female, she can't just join the men's circle at a wedding.
We follow the torah and the torah is truth. The torah is the epitome of rachmanus and emes even if it doesn't seem that way to us. All the so called "wise" people out there who have the lowest morals are the embodiment of sheker. All the rachmanus that they have on the poor transgender who doesn't have a tampon, is gone when they have no problem with aborting a baby cuz the mom isn't interested.
Please, don't let yourself be influenced by them.

roses

Thu, Dec 19 2019, 2:21 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

Assignation at birth of a gender that doesn't align with an individual's chromosomal or genital makeup is an excellent medical reason. Often a child is assigned and the full impact of the intersex condition isn't diagnosed until much later.

There are conditions where the genitalia don't match the chromosomal makeup, or the child has both male and female reproductive organs, or the chromosomal makeup is not a perfect XX or XY. These will all impact the gender expression of the person and may differ from the gender in which they were raised as a child

Parents can assign a gender to an intersex child and the child later feels the choice was made in error. This often happens when genitalia appear unusual and surgery is done to "normalize" the childs body appearance and assign the S-x that will make sense surgically, but genetically the child is the opposite s-x and doesn't want to continue as the assigned s-x, which was an artificial assignation.

There are many other examples of this, plus many more that fall into the psychological realm, but are also extremely serious and complex