S/O Working women collapsing

amother

Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:51 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

Growing up in the more litvish world, my mother, who worked long, long hours most of her life, would say this of some of her friends as well. There are some women who have just decided that they will not work. And they don't. They marry someone who is on board with the plan, they put their foot down, and the chips fall where they may. Parnassah is never a guarantee for anyone.

I think let's leave aside us peeking into someone else's windows, and focus on your own life instead. What, in your life, can you figure out to either do away with or get help with that can make things more manageable? I work full time as well, but I make it a priority to go to simchas - maybe because ours are few and far between, because my relatives don't have 10 children. Some I forgo because it's too expensive, but I don't feel bad about it. If I have a late night, well, that's what coffee is for!

I grew up with a mother that did all the things you describe in your post. And I never felt like she didn't love me or I didn't have her attention if I really needed it. Maybe that's why I don't have the same guilt about my own kids when I work full time and can't be there for them on vacation. I grew up fine - more than fine, extremely independent and sufficient - and I learned how to run a household. Instead of thinking of this as some kind of chisaron, realize that it's something to be so incredibly proud of! Look what you can do! What you ARE doing! You're amazing! You're a true aishes chayil!

(And notice how that piyut doesn't talk about the aishes chayil taking her kids on vacation and spending loads of time with them, it talks about how she handles the financial responsibilities of the household. Ahem.)

So... what can we work on to make your plate a little easier? To make your burden a bit lighter? Think small, and it will be big!

Thanks for your empathy and encouragement! I really appreciate it! You made me feel much better! I definitely always try to find ways to make life easier but at end of the day it is what it is and I can't help but wish it was easier...

amother

Teal

Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:53 pm

Op,

I’m 37, chassidish-Satmar, and the last time I took a vacation was during shana rishona. I’m also heavily involved in paying bills and scrimping and saving so that there should be enough to cover our expenses and most of my siblings are the same way. My mom is def not around to help;If anything it is us kids helping her. I do get what you are saying but know that it’s not all people. There’s a segment in every part of society living the high life but you def have a lot of company.

Wishing you menuchas hanefesh and harchuves hadas.

gold21

Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:57 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Bec this is what he's good at and this is where he shines and I wouldn't want it otherwise. Just musing at all the other kollel, klei kodesh or non working chassidish men whose wives aren't doing what I'm doing, that's all. Thanks for the sympathy, no, out of town wouldn't work.

Um.... Which chassidish women do you know living the high life with husbands in klei kodesh?

You're writing off the out of town idea pretty quickly. OK.

I'm from a strong career-woman background. Women are very accomplished, and work hard, where I come from. It's not easy. But the frustration you're expressing is a whole new level. Perhaps consider some alternative lifestyle options.

Last edited by gold21 on Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Chocolate

Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:59 pm

You chose this life! It's amazing that your husband is has a klei kodesh job but if you're not happy with that and want to increase your earnings he has to get a different job. Stop being jealous of everybody, everyone has a story not only you. I'm a stay at home mom and would love to have a job. However, me being home at this point of my life is the best thing for my family so I made a choice to do it. The second I'd find myself blaming entire sects of society for my issues I'd know that it was time to reconsider my choices.

I used to work near 13 avenue and often times went out with co-workers or met up with friends for lunch. Nearly the whole office went out on their lunch break. Every woman walking down 13 avenue is not a sahm and every woman sitting in a restaurant on 13 avenue is not a sahm either. I know sahm's that go out with friends once a month, once a week. Just because they're not working doesn' t mean they can't buy themselves a pizza and socialize every once in a while.

"Aize hu ashir ha'sameach bichelko"

lifesagift

Thu, Jan 09 2020, 4:05 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

Op I'm sorry but you're not making sense. All I'm hearing is let me just bash the chasidish community okay bye. Not how can I make my situation better or how can I afford my life so I can breathe. None of that.

true venting
The words satmar and chasidic are totally used as clickbait here on imamother..😕
Op you would probably be better off if you asked imas how we manage, how we juggle, cut out whats not important, manage stress... most imas across the spectrum are dealing with difficult situations and you can learn a lot how to make life easier. Reach out, there are people whod love to help you.

lilies

Thu, Jan 09 2020, 4:06 pm

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

I'm sorry - but this is a very wrong mindset. You're comparing doing chessed with necessary life responsibilities & financials burdens? Seriously? If you're having a tough day you can just say no to chessed - you can't exactly do that with life responsibilities.

And what about families where there's no SAHM? Do you think they working moms don't carry the burden of their elderly parents?

I don't think she was comparing, only giving perspective to the coveted 'high-life'.
When someone's sick in the hospital, those coming around to help out aren't usually the working mothers.
When they have a tough day, they don't just say no to chessed either.
Again, not a comparison.

amother

Floralwhite

Thu, Jan 09 2020, 4:24 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I've been thinking about this topic in general lately, maybe after spending time with my very chassidish sisters in law, and can't help but feel that life just isn't fair. The chassidish women have it so much easier than litvish or otherwise women! They don't have to work and get to fully focus on their home, children, and families with no other distractions, stress, exhaustion. Besides that, in general, they don't carry the responsibility of the household finances such as paying bills, managing bank accounts, and taking care of all the other myriad details of running home, of which I'm fully and heavily involved in, besides working full time and all my other mother and wife responsibilities. They also live surrounded by warm family and community, all readily available and willing to help at any given time with meals, childcare, and just general support. Their families are warm and close knit and have no high expectations of women other than to be frum and ehrlich and be good mothers and wives. They take vacations in the winter to FL and in summer to country and somehow there's sufficient funding for it all, without them having to work a day in their lives!
They have time to shop, cook, clean, socialize and work out in the gym.
Why do we have it so much harder than them?? Why do I feel that my best years of motherhood have been somewhat robbed from me due to my constant other responsibilities with never a break, not in the summer or winter or any random day just to shop and enjoy life?
Besides for all this, it's not like I have any more money than them. If anything, just the opposite! They seem to have all the money in the world for buying homes, groceries, nice clothing and jewelry, strollers etc etc while I scrimp and save and deprive myself of the basics and live off tzedakah.
Can someone please explain this to me???? It's so frustrating and painful!

What does being frum and ehrlich entail? I thought ehrich meant honest in business and life dealings, but it sounds like these people have none of that. Spending your day relaxing, vacationing, and buying jewelry is called being frum?

I saw a rock outside and was so jealous of it. It had no responsibilities, no worries, and no problems. It was also such a tzaddeikes... It never spoke lashon hara, never hurt anyone, never stole from anyone, never was mechalel shabbos... However, shockingly, the angelic rock isn't getting into Gan Eden.

If you want to be like that rock, the first step is taking action to stabilize your body temperature at room temperature. If you don't want to be like that rock, then realize that vacationing in Florida is not real life and isn't what were put into this world for.

Ladies, hug away.

amother

Oak

Thu, Jan 09 2020, 4:29 pm

lilies wrote:

This perspective is not working, especially for me. Who wouldn't want to be coming around helping out in the hospitals or cooking dinner for a PP woman instead of running yourself ragged & barely able to breathe just to keep your family going?

It IS a coveted high-life, and there's nothing wrong to admit it. What's wrong with admitting that some lifestyles are easier than others? Even if I'm one of those running myself ragged, I don't take comfort with those trying to commiserate by trying to bring down those on the high life.

Pointing out that everyone has struggles in different ways is a valid viewpoint, but bringing down the high-life to those truly struggling is not helpful. It's like the rich telling the poor, do you know how hard it is to sort through all the savings options and tax complications on a frequent basis.

We all wish to have that problem.

Metukah

Thu, Jan 09 2020, 4:30 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

In the chassidish world, you don't have women collapsing from work and childcare, trying to manage it all on their own. Even if they're working, they have so much help and support!

Halevai this was true. So many chassidish women are 'collapsing' and truly not coping. A relative of mine is one of them and I can't bear to watch the strain she is under.

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm specifying chassidish women bec their shitta is that the women don't work past 2 kids tops and bec I'm chassidish, I wouldn't compare myself to other sectors, especially non Jewish.

What shitta? Best joke of heard all year. Did I get off at the wrong station and missed the announcement. I've got 4 kids and I work. I grew up chassidish and almost all the females in my family work. (actually the 2 that don't work are NOT chassidish. One of them is not even well off). I married into a completely different type of chassidish female and all the females work too. Every single one of them.
Please don't go inventing shittas. There are enough rumours. Add it yo the whole in the sheet list.
Most chassidish women I know, work. Particularly those under the age of 35-40.

amother

Sienna

Thu, Jan 09 2020, 4:37 pm

sub wrote:

My uncle, some cousins, and nephews are in klei kodesh- the wives definitely work, many at full time jobs. They live simple lives in small apt. They don’t go to the country unless it’s to work in a camp. They don’t live high flying lives. Some are part of the sandwich generation- and have double or triple the workload. And yes some are collapsing.
This situation has nothing to do with chassidish or litvish but rather the expectation of living with low income but high expenditure.

This

lilies

Thu, Jan 09 2020, 4:41 pm

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

Nope. That is seeing things with blinders on.
Back to the 'money makes things easier' and all those threads. Life has ups and downs. Yes, it's nice to be in a place of 'up' and be the giver, and able to do chessed. But it's never a full picture and to call it "the high-life" implies that life is a walk in the park for those people.

I'm all for supporting op in her struggle.

With that said, I know some rich people and I don't envy them at all. There are unique issues that rich people suffer from that is hard to fathom when money is a struggle.

I'm not rich. Very Happy

amother

Black

Thu, Jan 09 2020, 4:42 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think sometimes it's helpful to stop and smell the roses throughout the day. My babies were all colicky screamers, so leaving them with someone and being able to enjoy my coffee by my desk were things that I took time to appreciate. With the exception of healthcare, most office jobs are mindful of your comfort. You have a comfy chair, you have to work on your computer, you have a set lunch break and snack break. It's the before and after that's so hard - but give yourself a coffee/snack break where you breathe in and out, yoga style, and appreciate the calm. When you come home to the chaos, you'll have had that mindfulness - that ability to just BE in the quiet. Let yourself.

I give myself little rewards for things. If I finish the turbotax form, I get those cinnamon rugalach I bought at the store that I hid from my family. If I manage to get a dinner on the table that's more than chicken nuggets and fries, well, that's its own reward because I love dinner. If I organized the whole toy room on a Sunday AND managed to do the groceries AND managed to do dinner AND cleaned up AND even davened AND did the carpools AND took my kids to an outing like the park? JACKPOT. I get to watch videos on YouTube or on Netflix on my phone and my husband has to put the kids to bed. OR I get to take a long bath with a book.

As time goes on, and your kids get older, your day will get a lot easier. Dinner and cleanup can be a group effort. You're in the trenches now, but keep those little rewards coming, and things will look up!