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Pulling my baby out of her babysitter
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amother




Violet
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 6:07 am
amother [ Brunette ] wrote:
Actually the ratio in a Group Family Daycare (which would be what the babysitter would be if she was legal) for kids under 2 is 1:2. A center might be different. (Over 2 is 1:6.)


Yes sorry. I meant a center daycare. I don’t know laws of family based daycare as it wasn’t something I looked into or chose
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amother




Ruby
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 6:17 am
amother [ Cerise ] wrote:
I was hired as a babysitter's ASSISTANT back when we had 12-13.

Now we have 10 and I'm there when the boss isn't. When she's there, I'm not.

5 non walking babies and 5 toddlers. 5 months to 18 months.

It's not safe, it's not legal, but none of the parents seem to mind! Every day I pray for no fire.

I stagger everything to a fairly strict schedule so I know who will need what when and I try to have a long naptime for all the toddlers (or most) at once---- we usually have 5 sleeping from 10 to 12 along with babies continuing to sleep from 9...... pack and plays in every room of the house. I try to do bottles during that 10-12 time (and spoon feed babies). so 9 am I nap the babies, 10 ish I put down the toddlers, 11 ish I bottle and/or spoon feed the babies, 12 ish I lunch the toddlers (we only have 4 high chairs so if they're all ready to eat at noon I just sit one at a chair at a table. 1 ish I put the babies back down for nap #2 (they napped between 9 and 11 or so)---- by 2:00 two of the babies get picked up and by 2:30 two of the toddlers get picked up so now we're at 6. Then two 3 year olds come to us after playgroup so we're back to 8 but between 2:30 and 4 it's basically just cleaning high chairs, vaccuming, and doing some more poopy diapers. a couple of babies get bottled again by 3 or so, and a couple eat food again at that time. I just stagger toys all over the floor but I don't get to sit and play with anyone or read them books or anything like that. I just diaper, feed, bottle, carry to pack and play, diaper, feed, bottle, carry to pack and play all day long.


I hope you’re getting paid well!
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Simple1




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 6:21 am
Metukah wrote:
Seriously? Even non walking babies? What happens in an emergency?

In the UK, its 1:3 for under 2 years and 1:4 for 2-3 year old. Over 3 it's 1:8 or 1:13 depending on setting and qualification.


In an emergency, they would put the babies in a port a crib (with wheels) and roll them out.

In NJ, the legal daycare ratio is 1:4.
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teachkids




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 6:54 am
She’d probably rather you pull your baby out than fight about the extra kids she took. It should be an uncomfortable but painless conversation
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thriver




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 9:10 am
If she took more kids, chances are she can easily replace your baby too. Do not sweat it.

With no strong emotions, state the facts. “We appreciate all you’ve done. Perhaps I’m overly cautious but I am not comfortable with such a large group and I need to do what I am comfortable with for my child. Hatzlacha.”

The end.

You can send flowers and a thank you note if you really want to go above and beyond. Not necessary.

I’ve babysat and had circumstances change and children pull out. Life happens. If she becomes upset about it, that is her issue. Not yours. Do not let yourself get upset about it and just do the broken record thing of “I need to do what I feel comfortable with.” Do not apologize. Reserve apologies for when you’ve done something wrong. You have not.
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Chayalle




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 9:21 am
amother [ Peach ] wrote:
No one has 4 non walking babies at home. Unless they have quints +.
My neighbor works in a legal daycare in Monsey, the ration is 1:3.


My sister's SIL's twins are 18 months apart. Not sure the boys were walking when the girls were born....just sayin'.
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thriver




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 9:23 am
There definitely is an issue with illegal daycares in our community. The facts are that most of our moms are not making enough to cover legal daycares and babysitters cannot charge enough per child that it is worth their time... anyone have the solution to this problem?

It is a problem. I breathe a sigh of relief that my youngest is long out of daycare. But this is a problem. Any ideas for solutions?
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amother




Coffee
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 9:36 am
amother [ Cerise ] wrote:
I was hired as a babysitter's ASSISTANT back when we had 12-13.

Now we have 10 and I'm there when the boss isn't. When she's there, I'm not.

5 non walking babies and 5 toddlers. 5 months to 18 months.

It's not safe, it's not legal, but none of the parents seem to mind! Every day I pray for no fire.

I stagger everything to a fairly strict schedule so I know who will need what when and I try to have a long naptime for all the toddlers (or most) at once---- we usually have 5 sleeping from 10 to 12 along with babies continuing to sleep from 9...... pack and plays in every room of the house. I try to do bottles during that 10-12 time (and spoon feed babies). so 9 am I nap the babies, 10 ish I put down the toddlers, 11 ish I bottle and/or spoon feed the babies, 12 ish I lunch the toddlers (we only have 4 high chairs so if they're all ready to eat at noon I just sit one at a chair at a table. 1 ish I put the babies back down for nap #2 (they napped between 9 and 11 or so)---- by 2:00 two of the babies get picked up and by 2:30 two of the toddlers get picked up so now we're at 6. Then two 3 year olds come to us after playgroup so we're back to 8 but between 2:30 and 4 it's basically just cleaning high chairs, vaccuming, and doing some more poopy diapers. a couple of babies get bottled again by 3 or so, and a couple eat food again at that time. I just stagger toys all over the floor but I don't get to sit and play with anyone or read them books or anything like that. I just diaper, feed, bottle, carry to pack and play, diaper, feed, bottle, carry to pack and play all day long.


This is frightening, and I'm sorry you're in that situation. We pay a lot of $$ but legal daycare is worth it...at least there's oversight. BH we can pay for it.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 10:18 am
thriver wrote:
If she took more kids, chances are she can easily replace your baby too. Do not sweat it.

With no strong emotions, state the facts. “We appreciate all you’ve done. Perhaps I’m overly cautious but I am not comfortable with such a large group and I need to do what I am comfortable with for my child. Hatzlacha.”

The end.

You can send flowers and a thank you note if you really want to go above and beyond. Not necessary.

I’ve babysat and had circumstances change and children pull out. Life happens. If she becomes upset about it, that is her issue. Not yours. Do not let yourself get upset about it and just do the broken record thing of “I need to do what I feel comfortable with.” Do not apologize. Reserve apologies for when you’ve done something wrong. You have not.


Thank you! This is a great way to say it.
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gamanit




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 11:45 am
delete

Last edited by gamanit on Tue, Jan 14 2020, 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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gamanit




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 11:45 am
Metukah wrote:
Seriously? Even non walking babies? What happens in an emergency?

In the UK, its 1:3 for under 2 years and 1:4 for 2-3 year old. Over 3 it's 1:8 or 1:13 depending on setting and qualification.


I'm pretty sure I'd be able to squish several babies into the bassinet of a single stroller in an emergency situation even if I wouldn't have a porta crib plus neighbors would help. At the moment I don't have any non walking babies but requiring a ratio that is completely non-affordable makes no sense. If the daycare worker is earning the same wage as the parent it amounts to around half of a person's salary going to cover daycare for just one baby.
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tryinghard




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 11:51 am
If she makes a fuss, imply that she can take you to court if she needs to... but the legal ramifications are worse for her than you
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amother




Lavender
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 11:55 am
Financial stress is also dangerous. It increases the risk of not being able to afford medical care, better housing, and other things that make you safer, and it also damages one's mental health, which increases the risk of many medical conditions. In extreme cases, it can lead to suicide.
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gamanit




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 11:55 am
tryinghard wrote:
If she makes a fuss, imply that she can take you to court if she needs to... but the legal ramifications are worse for her than you


Pretty sure that's mesira... But she wouldn't be able to force you to pay regardless. Bais din wouldn't accept a case with no signed documents.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 11:56 am
gamanit wrote:
I'm pretty sure I'd be able to squish several babies into the bassinet of a single stroller in an emergency situation even if I wouldn't have a porta crib plus neighbors would help. At the moment I don't have any non walking babies but requiring a ratio that is completely non-affordable makes no sense. If the daycare worker is earning the same wage as the parent it amounts to around half of a person's salary going to cover daycare for just one baby.

What do you mean by bassinet? And how would you ensure none fell out? If you are relying on neighbors, how many seconds does it take to get help, and how many seconds would you have in an emergency?

Whether a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio is affordable is a completely different discussion than whether a ratio of 1:4 or higher will ensure safety in an emergency. And of course there is the question of "do we live our lives based on what we'll do in an emergency" and each couple answers the question of how much caution is bare minimum and how much is overdoing it for themselves.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 11:57 am
amother [ Lavender ] wrote:
Financial stress is also dangerous. It increases the risk of not being able to afford medical care, better housing, and other things that make you safer, and it also damages one's mental health, which increases the risk of many medical conditions. In extreme cases, it can lead to suicide.

Wrong thread?
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gamanit




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 11:59 am
banana123 wrote:
What do you mean by bassinet? And how would you ensure none fell out? If you are relying on neighbors, how many seconds does it take to get help, and how many seconds would you have in an emergency?

Whether a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio is affordable is a completely different discussion than whether a ratio of 1:4 or higher will ensure safety in an emergency. And of course there is the question of "do we live our lives based on what we'll do in an emergency" and each couple answers the question of how much caution is bare minimum and how much is overdoing it for themselves.


I'm thinking of my own stroller which has a Britax Affinity bassinet. My three (biggish) kids have climbed in together for fun. I would put kids sitting up in a choo choo train and any newborn laying across the lap of the not newborn. This would only be for the minute it takes to walk outside. When I sent to a babysitter there were neighbors in the nearby apartment who would be there in under 15 seconds if need be plus her building was rated noncombustible and she had a fire escape right by her apartment.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 12:06 pm
gamanit wrote:
I'm thinking of my own stroller which has a Britax Affinity bassinet. My three (biggish) kids have climbed in together for fun. I would put kids sitting up in a choo choo train and any newborn laying across the lap of the not newborn. This would only be for the minute it takes to walk outside. When I sent to a babysitter there were neighbors in the nearby apartment who would be there in under 15 seconds if need be plus her building was rated noncombustible and she had a fire escape right by her apartment.

I guess that depends on the stroller, what floor the babysitter lives on, and the age of the babies. I've seen a lot of strollers that can't handle that and at a certain age/ stage it's not really safe to pile babies on top of each other.

I also see that we're not thinking of the same emergencies. While what you wrote works for fires (certain fires, at least, and provided the neighbor doesn't happen to be out on an errand), it wouldn't work in the case of an earthquake or siren.

(How do you know if a building is rated non-combustible? And what does that mean - it's not made of wood?)

But I will remember that the Britax Affinity can hold 3 large infants/ toddlers/ preschoolers(?) with no problem. Very Happy
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gamanit




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 12:13 pm
banana123 wrote:
I guess that depends on the stroller, what floor the babysitter lives on, and the age of the babies. I've seen a lot of strollers that can't handle that and at a certain age/ stage it's not really safe to pile babies on top of each other.

I also see that we're not thinking of the same emergencies. While what you wrote works for fires (certain fires, at least, and provided the neighbor doesn't happen to be out on an errand), it wouldn't work in the case of an earthquake or siren.

(How do you know if a building is rated non-combustible? And what does that mean - it's not made of wood?)

But I will remember that the Britax Affinity can hold 3 large infants/ toddlers/ preschoolers(?) with no problem. Very Happy


When choosing a babysitter you should ask her what her emergency plan is. She should have some idea what she would do. Unless you're treating the babies like dolls you should be able to find a configuration that will be safe for up to five minutes or so.

What type of emergencies are likely to happen depends on your area. There aren't ever any serious earthquakes where I live and no threat of missiles/sirens at the moment. I guess there's also the risk of a gas leak or flood.

Combustible vs. not combustible isn't only about whether or not it's a frame building but also regarding which sheetrock (if any) was used for the construction. You can find this information out by looking up the certificate of occupancy or other building related documents. The building I'm referring to was built with brick and concrete.
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amother




Lavender
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 12:23 pm
banana123 wrote:
Wrong thread?

No. Extreme safety requirements for babysitters raises the cost and leads to financial stress.
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