Do They Say Please?

amother

Sun, Jan 19 2020, 11:35 pm

Do your kids say please when they ask you for an everyday something, such as a glass of water, or another serving, etc.
We all know the ideal: I want facts on the ground.
I don't remember working very hard to train my kids to do it, but I did put an emphasis on it, and my older kids do it automatically. It could also be that I rubbed off on them, because MY mother put an emphasis on it. Wink

Now, when my 5 yr old asks for something, he sometimes says it on his own, and sometimes I have to remind him. When I remind him, he often says it, but sometimes balks. It never turns into a big deal, but
DH claims that guys in his (average, refined) environment say thank you, but not please. They'll ask "Can you get me that?" (when its appropriate). He claims people would honestly think he's weird, like overly polite, if he'd do it in public.
I'm thinking back to my camp and school years, and I'm remembering that very few kids actually said please when asking someone to pass something. In fact, I remember the one kid who did, because she stands out.
I don't need advice on how to deal with this. I just want to know the reality in your world, and if there is a difference in the male/female environment.
Please, no bashing. Just facts. Thank you.

amother

Tan

Sun, Jan 19 2020, 11:37 pm

Yes, I make it a big point of emphasis. People laugh at how my two-year-old says please, thank you, excuse me, you're welcome, "Sure!", and "my pleasure!"

It's not just "manners." Not saying please - and more importantly, not absorbing the meaning behind saying please - leads to the sense of entitlement that pervades our society today. It's "magia li." I don't have to request it, because it's coming to me.

amother

Sun, Jan 19 2020, 11:53 pm

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

Yes, I make it a big point of emphasis. People laugh at how my two-year-old says please, thank you, excuse me, you're welcome, "Sure!", and "my pleasure!"

I think your DH is wrong. It's not just "manners." Not saying please - and more importantly, not absorbing the meaning behind saying please - leads to the sense of entitlement that pervades our society today. It's "magia li." I don't have to request it, because it's coming to me.

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 12:09 am

Interesting. Manners were huge in my home growing up. Teaching my kids manners is critical to me and I think I've done well. They are very polite.

For my husband it wasn't so big. He'll say things like, "do you want to pass me the water?" HUH? Do I want to? What is that? Just say, "please pass the water." He knows it makes me crazy and he usually catches and corrects but not always and I just let it go. I'm not his mom.

I don't know if it varries depending on family, culture, gender, or what. All I know is that I notice. I notice the guests who say please and have great manners and my kids' friends who say please and have great manners and I tend to instantly like those people more.

amother

Bisque

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 12:23 am

Your dh is correct. Is it proper? Probably not by some standards but politeness in tone of voice is way finer than an awkward please moment. Most girls (school and camp, where I interact with them and see it) skip the please when they're casually asking you to pass something. It's no big deal. Interestingly, I do find that when interacting with non-Jews they do say it.

Thank you is a given.

amother

Orchid

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 12:26 am

I don't think you will find "facts" in this type of question. I agree with your DH in a sense that different situations cause for different mannerisms.

I think when speaking to let's say rabbies or to a receptionist at a doctors office we speak differently than with our friends or spouses (not to say you don't say please to spouses or friends but I would say we are more focused on how we say things with the former.

I also have a two year old and she also, in the cuties voice, says please, thank you, no thank you, etc. But, my concern is more for her intention. If she says to me, "mommy can I have a cup of water?" in a sweet tone, I am very happy with that (as opposed to "I want water!" where I would correct her... More to communicate demanding vs asking).

I certainly don't say please all the time. BH I do a lot! But I think the focus for me is more on the relationship and if there is respect or mot. Like if I'm upset, I may not say please cause I don't feel like it! That's not the point, and if someone makes it the point then they are not listening... I think it's a lot to expect a child to speak politely all the time... Cause then the focus could be more of how they say things as opposed to what they are really saying...

Maybe your five year old just doesn't feel like saying it all the time, or a million other reasons... If he's being respectful otherwise that's great. I think it's important to pick our battles.
This is just my viewpoint...but again everyone lives in different types of cultures, upbringing, societies, so I don't think there is a factual answer.

amother

Tan

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 12:26 am

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

LOL my DH does the same thing!!

amother

Tan

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 12:30 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thanks for your response. I'm chuckling at your description of your 2 yr old, because I get similar feedback for my kid, same age. And I'm with you 100% on that magia li. I need occasional reminders for myself not to be that way and to be grateful to people and to Hashem for the good in my life.

If you don't mind my saying so, your black and white 'your DH is wrong' is a little hurtful to me. More than 1000 omissions of please. DH is very, very dear to me and I'm sensitive about such things. Besides, how can he be wrong when he's telling me facts on the ground?
And I specifically asked for facts on the ground and no bashing.

I'm sorry, I apologize. I didn't mean to be hurtful. I didn't mean to say "Oh, how terrible of your DH." I just thought that you were having a discussion about this, and I thought you were saying people do/should say please, whereas he was saying it's so 30 years ago or whatever. I wasn't saying "How dare he, it's the worst thing in the world," but more that it's proper to say please and not "weird." I should probably go back and re-read the OP to understand the finer details.

In casual conversation, the "please" often gets omitted, or it becomes "Would you mind?"

amother

Ginger

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 12:44 am

My almost 3 does the most terrible whiny "wayyyyyer" if he wants water. Idk where it's coming from bc he knows perfectly well how to ask. So like a broken record I model for him every time, "mommy can I have some water please? Ofc you can!"
However he has somehow internalized the sweetest most polite "no fank you!" so I'll be like "would you like to try some of this?" no fank you!
Lol!! They know better! They just don't want to LOL

DrMom

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 12:45 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If you don't mind my saying so, your black and white 'your DH is wrong' is a little hurtful to me. More than 1000 omissions of please. DH is very, very dear to me and I'm sensitive about such things. Besides, how can he be wrong when he's telling me facts on the ground?
And I specifically asked for facts on the ground and no bashing.

What on earth?

You're hurt because someone said your DH is wrong about saying please?

Surely you must have anticipated that at least one person might express the opinion that your DH is wrong when you started this thread.

Last edited by DrMom on Mon, Jan 20 2020, 12:47 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 12:48 am

Thanks to all for the responses. It's good for me to see the different angles.
Tan, I'm sorry. I'm too sensitive. I shouldn't have jumped on you when all you were doing was being helpful by responding. I do appreciate the explanation, though.
Ginger, I am laughing. Sounds so cute!

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 4:39 am

In Western societies, women say "please" far more often than men do. Women are expected to be soft and entreating, while men are strong and demanding. They are of course entitled to whatever they want, so they are not socialized to ask in a sweet way. (Major generalization, of course. We all know people who are the opposite, but I think you'll agree that it's this way the majority of the time.)

DD: MAMA! I need some water!
Me: What would be a good way to ask that?
DD: Would you please get me some water?
Me: YES, I would LOVE to get you some water!
Me: comes back with water
Me: You see how quickly I run to do a mitzva when you ask nicely? I am always happy to do things for you when you are respectful.
DD: Thank you, mama.

We were still having this conversation well into her tweens. Not often, usually when she's distracted with something else, and doesn't want to be bothered to get up and get it herself.

Hashem_Yaazor

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 11:02 am

While I definitely teach my children to use "please", I am more concerned with the way they ask and the tone they use. So if they ask politely "Can someone pass me the cheese?" without the please, I'll not make a big deal out of it, but if they say "Pass me the cheese now", I'll have them rephrase (and when modeling it, I probably do throw in a please there too Smile

)

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 11:15 am

It’s not so much the actual please that I expect but the respectful way of asking.

I don’t make them repeat it, but before giving them what they asked for, I’ll rephrase their request, which they often repeat.
Child: “Mommy I need a snack”
Me: “Mommy, can I please have a snack?”

And when they don’t say thank you I just say a very loud and clear “you’re welcome!” Which makes them realize what they forgot.

honeymoon

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 11:32 am

I grew up in a home where please and thank you was a given. My husband grew up in a home where they cut those words out of the dictionary. (They are great people, btw!) I try to model the way I would like my kids to speak but I don't stress over it. When a kid says "I want water." I'll hand it to them while saying "Mommy, can I please have water?" I don't make them repeat it but I totally see it having an effect. And after several years of speaking this way without saying anything to dh about it, my husband rarely forgets to say please and thank you. It all goes in by osmosis, not by lecturing.