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Tznius - Guiding until what age?

 
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amother




OP
 

Post  Sun, Feb 09 2020, 10:09 am
At what age do you just let teen daughters make their own choices without your constant input? For example, my 17 year old daughter, who is not rebellious, but has a strong desire to fit in that informs her choices more than any frum feeling (like most teens), bought a shorter a-line black skirt (the typical black skirt everyone in Lakewood and NY is wearing now), but she is tall so she wears it pulled down low on her hips. It rides up if she isn't constantly pulling it down, and especially when sitting her knees show. Depending on her mood she is receptive to input from me, and frankly I dont enjoy being her tznius police, who does? Am I free to say to myself "hey, I've taught her tznius and modeled tznius and now it's time for her to take responsibility for her choices?" Or am I still obligated to help her see what she cant see (because she isn't always in front of a mirror), and encourage her to make worthy choices? Thank you
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Simple1




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Feb 09 2020, 10:47 am
Can you just help her buy a skirt that fits better, and alter it if needed? This will also make her look more put together. I know this is easier said than done - I don't particularly enjoy shopping with teens.
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flmommy




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Feb 09 2020, 10:47 am
Excellent questions. I think you can tell her one or twice but after that let her decide and in the future she could have to pay for stuff if it doesn’t meet your tznius level. Can the skirt that everyone has be lengthened?
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nchr




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Feb 09 2020, 10:51 am
My parents believe you guide your children until their wedding, my in laws until after. I personally think my kids are individuals from the minute they are born, but I don't give them the right to vote on things like bedtime etc. Clothing? Yes, they can and should have input as it is part of developing identity. Respecting the rules of tznius according to society - probably as long as you live in my house, but that doesnt mean it has to be my taste.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Feb 09 2020, 11:43 am
I always believe that some battles are not worth fighting. Sometimes they figure things out on their own, the way they want and other times they figure things out, with bits of helpful guidance along the way.
A child who will always find the way to wear that skirt just those few inches shorter than they should, something tighter than they should, sometimes it is not worth fighting them about it. Sometimes that pushes them even further away.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Feb 09 2020, 11:58 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
I always believe that some battles are not worth fighting. Sometimes they figure things out on their own, the way they want and other times they figure things out, with bits of helpful guidance along the way.
A child who will always find the way to wear that skirt just those few inches shorter than they should, something tighter than they should, sometimes it is not worth fighting them about it. Sometimes that pushes them even further away.


THIS. Are you really going to make this the hill you die on, when she's almost a legal adult?

I fought with DD a LOT over similar stuff. As soon as she turned bas mitzva she wanted a pair of jeans. She wanted them SO badly. It was all she ever talked about. I shut her down every time, and was very authoritarian about it. She begged her best friend for a pair of her jeans, and whenever she went to that friend's house the first thing she would do is put on the jeans and take off her skirt. When I found out I was livid. It was an ugly scene. I'm not sure DD will ever forgive me for embarrassing her in front of her friend.

It really hurts to see your kids go a different way than how you raised them. I've come to the conclusion that you have to treat your kids, especially your teens, the way you would want to be treated by someone else. I can honestly say that all of my parenting "fails" have been when I have forgotten that rule.

You know what else? My own mom did that to ME! She even "slut shamed" me over some of my clothing choices. I swore I would never do that if I ever had a daughter. Oy. Can't Believe It

It's taken a lot of apologizing and communication to mend those bridges, on both sides.
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behappy2




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Feb 09 2020, 12:06 pm
I think you know your daughter. Does she want you to be her mirror or not. Repeating the same thing over and over helps nobody. If anything talk to her about the value of tznius and how difficult it can be, going against the trend and how you also personally struggle in tznius.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Sun, Feb 09 2020, 12:10 pm
Hmm...but in my case, she definitely professes to be very frum and very into tznius, etc...so it's just kinda confusing...because of course she's just really pulled in two directions...her feelings toward Torah ideals and her very valid desire to fit in...and of course, her teenage mood swings...one minute she might ask me why I didn't tell her that her skirt rode up, and another minute she'll roll her eyes if I mention it to her...I would like to stop being the tznius mashgiach, and of course cut out more of the eye rolling and disrespectful behaviour, but sometimes I feel annoyed when she asks me for extra favors, like drive her here or there late at night or buy her something extra, if she's not following some basic rules she knows are important to me...being a mother to teens is hard
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Feb 09 2020, 2:16 pm
Can you straight out ask her? "I see you developing into a thoughtful, conscientious and independent young adult. Would you prefer for me to mention if I see something I think you may not be aware of and would be uncomfortable with, or should I keep any observations to myself and you'll take care of matters on your own when you realize they come up?"
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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Sun, Feb 09 2020, 2:34 pm
Hashem_Yaazor wrote:
Can you straight out ask her? "I see you developing into a thoughtful, conscientious and independent young adult. Would you prefer for me to mention if I see something I think you may not be aware of and would be uncomfortable with, or should I keep any observations to myself and you'll take care of matters on your own when you realize they come up?"

This. If she says she really wants to wear this skirt but knows she's having trouble keeping it down, you can offer a solution of adding 2 inches between the waistband and the hips so the rest of the skirt stays intact.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Sun, Feb 09 2020, 2:37 pm
amother [ Maroon ] wrote:
This. If she says she really wants to wear this skirt but knows she's having trouble keeping it down, you can offer a solution of adding 2 inches between the waistband and the hips so the rest of the skirt stays intact.


Thank you for the recommendation...this is a skirt of thicker material with stretch in it...how exactly would one add two inches between hips and waist band? Ty
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Fabulous




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Feb 09 2020, 2:38 pm
I see nothing wrong with stepping back, but making it clear that you will not pay for items that go against your family rules. She is still loved and welcome however she chooses to dress, but you don’t have to pay for it
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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Sun, Feb 09 2020, 2:50 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thank you for the recommendation...this is a skirt of thicker material with stretch in it...how exactly would one add two inches between hips and waist band? Ty

Find a textile that marches in terms of thickness and stretch and bring it to the dressmake. She can remove the waistband and drop the skirt 2 inches.
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