Would you invite this family for shabbos?

amother

Tue, Feb 11 2020, 11:52 pm

There is a lovely woman in my community who has been to h*ll and back. Her husband is locked up for abusing the kids, and at least one kid is OTD from the abuse. There are a lot of kids, and I don't know what their exposure was to all of this, but there was some, if not more.
I feel absolutely terrible, but I don't feel comfortable inviting them to my house, because the kids are similar ages to mine, and I am nervous about friendships with these kids. It sounds even worse when I write it. What would you do in this situation?

amother

Mustard

Tue, Feb 11 2020, 11:58 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My issue isn't the OTD but abusive behaviors that the kids may have picked up.
Also, all the abusers I know are lovely people until you spend a few hours with them in a natural situation. I would be very nervous about this woman possibly also being abusive and just hiding it better than her ex. I might invite the kids a few at a time, but I would be very nervous about allowing the mother into my home before I had had a chance to see her true colors one-on-one in a several-hours-long natural-type situation where my own children were not present and some potentially stressful trigger (her own children?) was.

mamma llama

Wed, Feb 12 2020, 12:35 am

I would speak to a Rav. This is one of those questions that really depend on your specific family dynamics and your Rav will know how to guide you better than anyone else. Hachnasas Archim is a big mitzvah, but so is raising your kids. Your discomfort isn't for a petty reason; you are concerned for the wellbeing of your children. After consulting with a halachic authority, you have no reason to feel guilty if he decides that it is best not to invite them over. Salut

I don't know how old your kids are, but perhaps if they go on a sleepover or go to sleepaway camp, the situation will be different and you will feel more comfortable inviting the family over when your kids will not be home.
Another thought is if you see other families that have similarly aged kids in your community who have had this family over for meals. In that case, I would suggest you speak to them about their decision to invite them into their homes. Find out how the mom and her kids behaved, and how their kids felt about it. (Make sure to only ask things that are l'toeles.) This is the best way to gauge whether or not this is something that would be okay for you to do.

Hatzlacha with this decision and all future ones!

salt

Wed, Feb 12 2020, 12:42 am

I would invite them. They're probably thirsty for a nice warm family environment.

My kids (age ~9 - 19) aren't the type to make immediate long-lasting friendships with kids that come for a shabbos meal here and there. They take time to warm up to kids that they don't know. So that wouldn't be a concern for me.

Do you really think the family could show abusive behaviour when being hosted for a shabbos meal? They'll most likely be polite, thankful and really enjoy themselves.

Last edited by salt on Wed, Feb 12 2020, 12:45 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Mustard

Wed, Feb 12 2020, 12:50 am

salt wrote:

Depends on a lot of things. They might be like you said, nice and polite and thankful, or they might be incredibly rude, pushing, shoving, insulting. Or worse. Most abusive people can keep up a polite facade for a few minutes, but lasting for a few hours, especially around children, is much more difficult.

Like I said I would be nervous that this mother would display abusive behavior but willing to spend a few hours to meet her and get to know her better before making a decision. My first responsibility is to my family. I'm not ruling people out without checking facts, but I am not going to make a decision like this without doing due diligence first.

The idea to ask families who have already hosted this mother and her children is a good one.

amother

Mustard

Wed, Feb 12 2020, 1:00 am

DrMom wrote:

I think a community has an obligation to befriend such people and make them feel welcome.

Please don't befriend my mother (who is abusive and claimed my non-abusive father was the abusive one). Befriend me and my siblings.

Befriending our mother AND us will only mean that you are one more person who we can't turn to when we need help, because you are her friend as well and will side with her and preach kibud eim.

And it means you're not really our friend at all, you're someone who feels bad for our mother and for us by extension, who is trying to be nice in ways that are convenient for her, so she feels good about herself.

If you want to help, befriend us kids and let us know that we have you to turn to when we need parents, no matter what time of day or night it is, no matter what we need.

(Yep. This is why I said what I said to the OP. Not ashamed of it. I learned to judge people by their actions and behavior, not by what they claim or the stereotypes we all like do hungrily devour. I would give the mother of the family the OP described a chance. But away from my family and kids.)

amother

Pearl

Wed, Feb 12 2020, 1:23 am

I would absolutely invite without hesitation.

I hear your concerns about what kind of behaviors the kids were exposed to but your children aren’t going to “get infected” over the course of one meal. During those few hours you’ll be able to get a feel for who/ what you’re dealing with and if you want to do this again, have her kids over to play with yours sometimes, etc. But for one Shabbos meal I would have zero hesitation.

I might be naive but I really try hard to treat people the way I want to be treated, and try to have tremendous compassion for people struggling so that if G-d forbid I should ever be in such a position I will also be treated with compassion and care. And I tell myself that Hashem isn’t going to let harm come to me or my family for doing a mitzvah and showing ahavas Yisroel.

southernbubby

Wed, Feb 12 2020, 2:02 am

I personally think that chessed like this is best handled by organizations that can match the family for Shabbos meals with families who are prepared to help. Having someone difficult for one meal usually won't damage the host family but the problem comes in when the invites become frequent expectations and the troubled family has nowhere else to go. It would be problematic to host them frequently and few people are capable of doing that.

amother

Wed, Feb 12 2020, 2:23 am

Thanks for the responses and the perspective.

To clarify, this was severe s*exual abuse.

Also, I'm not worried about what could happen in one meal. I'm worried about them meeting the kids and then seeing them in the neighborhood and friendships developing. I'd rather not open that door.

I've already had problems with the kids meeting kids we didn't know that well and becoming friendly, finding out later there were family issues, and then seeing the damage. Nothing horrible, but I'd rather not open a new door where the problems might be very damaging.

amother

Lime

Wed, Feb 12 2020, 3:39 am

we live in a charedi shtetl ike community.

I became great friends with a lady who was divorced 2 times, both exhusbands were abusive, her second ex husband abused the girls s3xually over a long period of time, she had no clue Sad

the oldest girl is OTD (think drugs etc) all other chidlren live at home attend top schools are very liked by peers etc.

she works hard on enabling all six children at home a good childhood dispite the fact that she is a single parent, has very little money, her kid suffer PTSD, she has no family in tghis country, her exhusband threatens her etc.

she is an amazing role model. she works very very hard , she learned the language of this country very fst and very well so that she could find a better paying job (she has no formal education), she is always positive, all kids are in therapy, she makes sure the oldest boy ahs a 'mentor' in yeshiva who takes care of him (like a father figure, a chassidic psychologist), who helps with 'boy-purchases (think tfilin, new hat...) and makes sure he has great chevrusa partners, she teaches the litte ones musical instruments, she is not embarassed to ask for tzeddaka and mmany people actively try to help , because they see how much she puts into her chidlren.(one baal chesed payed for the bar mizva , another one invited them on a small vacation last summer) etc.

they are VERY grateful but most of all she likes being part of it all. she told me ones after her second divorce, that she was scared they would be ignored/isolated, it would be the worse .

many families invite them to seudos, parties, birthdays : neigbours, friends. we know she has been to hell and the fact that she 'lost' her oldest child is vey painful too...
why should we add to her problems by closing our doors?

I actually started using one of her teen girls as a babysitter now, this way she can make some money of her own and my kids live her.

(most of us are chassidsh but some families are litvis/yeshivis- more on the right side if, that makes a difference in this case. )

WhatFor

Wed, Feb 12 2020, 4:38 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If you've already made up your mind, what's your question really? Generally I agree with those saying of course to invite. But if you view them a certain way and won't let your kids be friends with them, then an invitation might cause more pain than it would benefit them. No one wants to be invited as a nebach and still kept at a distance/ not truly welcome.

I'm not judging you, go make the best decision for your own family. But not every family is the proper host for a family going through something. I hope there are others in your community who are able to welcome this family who don't share the concerns you have.

banana123

Wed, Feb 12 2020, 10:21 am

DrMom wrote:

This poor woman was sxualy abused by her DH, as were her kids. All the time this was happening they probably got Shabbat invitations right and left. Now that she finally got up the courage to leave him and save her kids, she's a social pariah.

What's wrong with this picture?

Who says people were inviting them right and left? Could be they were hardly invited at all.

southernbubby

Wed, Feb 12 2020, 10:35 am

DrMom wrote:

Because it is a big family, I doubt they got invited out a lot.

ora_43

Wed, Feb 12 2020, 11:00 am

S-xual abuse isn't contagious.

I get wanting to protect your kids from bad things, but wanting to protect your kids from people who've experienced bad things is a step too far.

True, the kids could be a bad influence, just like any other kids from any other family. But a Shabbas invite is not a contractual obligation to lifelong friendship. Invite them, treat them normally. If at some point you see that one of their kids is 1. becoming friends with one of your kids, and 2. acting in a way you don't like - deal with it then. Like you would with any other kid from any other family.

ora_43

Wed, Feb 12 2020, 11:06 am

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

First off, I'm sorry that happened to you.

Unfortunately when kids are young there's often no way to befriend them without also befriending a parent. I remember once there was a woman living in my community who was clearly a terrible, terrible parent (and who claimed her ex was the abusive one, although to be fair, I can't say for sure that he wasn't also abusive). I was friendly even though it was clear she was lying/disturbed about many things, because what was the other option?

Anyway. There's no particular reason for OP to think this woman is abusive, but even if she was, I'd say it would be better to invite her, as long as she's not being openly abusive in front of OP and her family.