Gotta love these idealistic young couples...

HonesttoGod

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 8:09 pm

This whole idea of "supporting" a couple makes no sense to me.
They are old enough to date and get married, get pregnant and have kids, they are perfectly well able enough to get a freaking job, make money, and be financially independent. If they make bad choices, well thats their mistake and they can learn from it.

Then again I also think we should be giving financial security lessons to 12th graders about to get married as well as kallah classes. That will never happen as long as we live in a community where every couple gets a full $20K furniture set per room, bugaboos for their first stroller, and 3 yafi wigs before theyre even married.

amother

Mauve

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 8:14 pm

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

It's very nice that you were able to manage.

But let's assume that this is the standard, $2k per month minimum. That's $24k per year (if they go a full year). And that's on top of whatever they paid for the wedding. Are there other children in the home? If I was doing that it would be a third of our take-home pay. If I had 2 kids to support it would be 2/3 of our take home.

How does anyone do this if they have other children at home? Is everyone wealthy?

I also wonder about this? how do they support more than one kid and still pay for their own household?
On top of that how do kids knowingly take from their parents 2 k a month when they know they are not well off? What is the rationale behind it? How do they justify it ? If you take 2k a month from struggling parents how do you sleep at night knowing that your parents are worrying about their own food on their table? but mostly I wonder how the parents pay for it if you have 6 or 7 or 8 kids.

also does anyone have the original letter?

groisamomma

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 8:23 pm

TravelHearter wrote:

Hi all.
Just wanted to share my personal experience.
I started off my marriage in yerushalayim as well. My in laws couldn’t support, and my parents are not well off, but committed to doing apprx $2k a month for six months and then seeing how they’re doing. Their main livelihood is commission based so they are able to see yad Hashem clearly and are very into we do what we need to do and Hashem will provide. They’ve ben proven right again and again, maybe bc of their bitachon. Either way, 2k paid for rent plus some for basics. I tried to find work, which is very hard for American girls, and made just a little bit plus husbands kollel money. With all this we were fine but barely went out to eat and didn’t clothing shop etc. we moved back after six months for other reasons. Now we are in an out of town kollel which pays well BH, and my in laws and parents help out randomly, such as challah and chicken soup for shabbos, some help w rent, etc. things like maternity clothes I actually got from my MIL.
My parents by no means are well off. They don’t pay full tuition usually, etc. they gave us what we needed with the thought that we would do the rest on our own. My husband is in kollel, we have a couple of kids, and BH we’re managing right now bc we figured out a way to do so... we’re living out of town.

Having been supported for many years, I could have written your post, with one difference: My parents paid full tuition plus more. I once asked my father why he was paying full price for camp and he asked me, "Who should pay it, if not me?" They weren't filthy rich but they did NOT support their children on the backs of those forced to make up the difference so others could support two perfectly capable adults that chose this lifestyle on everyone else's cheshbon.

How can your father justify that?

polka dots

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 8:25 pm

She’s obviously responding to a letter that we didn’t see. Using my reading comprehension skills here.

Seems like the original letter or article she is answering too was a parent who put a lot of pressure on herself to support her couple on a very high level, thinking that it is a “must.” That parent thinks she must constantly buy gifts for the couple and maternity clothing for when she is expecting.

This very sweet newlywed is saying that it is not a given. She is showing a lot of appreciation to her own parents and in laws for supporting her and saying that she is very grateful for whatever she gets and it is not a “must” to give more.

She is not saying anywhere that the support she is getting is taken for granted. What’s so confusing? She is acknowledging the fact that it is a chesed from her parents. I don’t see the problem.

She is saying that the maternity clothing she bought with her monthly amount of money that her parents give her and she is letting the original writer know that not everyone goes shopping with their newly pregnant daughter.

Where did this women go wrong? It’s not her fault she is being supported and she totally doesn’t sound entitled.

amother

Honeydew

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 8:34 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

Side note, I have a hard time with hachnasas kallah campaigns that supply things my (wealthy) parents didn’t deem necessary. Like huh?

Recently my son was about to get engaged and I started asking around to find out the "going rate" for kallah jewelry. I said that my budget was $1000, and I was told, oh no no no, you must spend $1800 minimum. I said that sounds excessive as I don't own anything nearly that expensive.

A very nice lady who is active in hachnasas kallah gave me a number to call, I assumed it was for a place where I could get nice jewelry at a discount price. When I called I told them my budget, and they told me that this was a jewelry gemach where they give the jewelry away for free.

So here I am, I can afford $1000 for jewelry but not more, being told that I need to spend at least $1800 and take tzedakah if necessary.

(My son did not end up getting engaged to that girl so I don't have an ending to this story yet.)

amother

Puce

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 8:44 pm

polka dots wrote:

100%. This makes perfect sense. Everyone should stop attacking the poor girl:

TravelHearter

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 8:46 pm

groisamomma wrote:

The year this happened he BH made more than usual and so he went to the principal and asked to pay full tuition bc he can. How many people would do that? Make a little more money and think this should go towards paying for full tuition for this year bc we can?

amother

Coral

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 8:47 pm

My husband and I work. A lot. And we make a lot of money! Each of us has a main job and a side job. But we have a number of kids, and somehow that adds up to $70,000 in tuition, and let’s not get into camps.

I feel wrong is ridiculing women whose husbands are in kollel and they get support from their parents, because I do, too. There was no way we had the money for our down payment. We just couldn’t save, between clothing and tuition and babysitting (we have jobs) and insurance bills and camp and food and rent.

These days, I don’t honestly know how anyone does it. All our bills are literally ten times what my parents paid for each of these items. Ten!! Literally!! Ten times rent, ten times tuition, etc.

I am impressed with everyone that’s self-made, and I’m ashamed to say I’m one of those that aren’t.

Life will hit her soon enough. Let’s not mock her now.

mommy3b2c

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 8:52 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

What’s a lot of money?

TravelHearter

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 8:53 pm

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

If you think getting $2k a month is not full support and is "just helping out" you have a huge financial reality check coming when you are on your own. Unless your parents have a family business where you are guaranteed a job with a very nice pay check starting on day one.

You think 24k is a normal amount for a household to get on a year? Maybe for one spouse to be making but how on earth does anyone manage on that to pay rent bills food etc? Not talking support wise. I don’t think me thinking 24k is not a good amount a year in the long run. I really don’t understand that a nice pay check is one that provides only 24k per family. Even teachers possibly make more than that, and that with husbands job or kollel brings in more.

amother

Aqua

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 8:58 pm

24k is a HUGE amount to give away to another household in 1 year, regardless if that is enough for you to live on.
And teachers in a frum school probably do make around that, or even less. I made waaay less than that when I taught in a frum school.
Lots of typical jobs begin in the low 30s salary wise. And that's with a college degree. Starting your own business can take years to turn a real profit.

amother

Lemon

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 9:01 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

I think there's a huge difference between parents offering help with the down payment, and parents FORCED to offer monthly support or the pool of possible suitors for their dd dwindles down to nothing.

Couples usually buy a house a few years after marriage, and parents help if they want to - it's not a desperate way to get their child married.

There's also a big difference between giving a set lump sum, and spending years giving monthly support. The dynamics are different, even if the sum ultimately is not. A couple that received help with down payment is still presumably otherwise independent, whereas a couple that receives monthly support is far more 'tied to their parents' apron strings.'

To say nothing of the fact that some couples receive both monthly support and downpayment.

amother

Pink

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 9:05 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

Oh wow, are you my twin? Except that both my husband and I work as hard as we can, and we DON'T make so much money at all.

I am very thankful that my father helped/helps us out and I really have no idea how I would have managed otherwise.

amother

Honeydew

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 9:07 pm

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

100%. This makes perfect sense. Everyone should stop attacking the poor girl:

Nobody is attacking the girl. We realize she is a product of her culture. We are questioning the culture though because it seems this lifestyle is possible only for the very wealthy

I'm also wondering about the younger siblings in that home who have to do without because half the family's budget goes to "support."

amother

Coral

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 10:28 pm

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

I think that everyone feels pressure. I think there’s pressure to have your kids live the life in Israel, and there’s pressure to pay for all their stuff. No one likes to see their children struggling.

I deliberately refused to start off in Israel or in kollel because my mantra was never to take someone else’s money. And the irony is that of all my sisters in law, I’ve probably taken the most. There were medical problems and job problems and my parents could never afford to help.