When will the coronavirus be over?

amother

Tan

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 2:00 am

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

It's so mean but I can't help thinking this may inadvertently solve China's population crisis.

I was thinking the same thing... It feels much better to know I'm not the only one who is so morbid! LOL

amother

Blonde

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 7:05 am

Diseases do not recognize borders.

Perhaps something to think about.

And ( if nothing else) there are Jews in China.

Chabad shluchim are there some who chose to stay despite the risks to help the trapped people of all nationalities R"L.

May Hashem Bless their efforts with hatzlocha in every way.

nchr

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 7:21 am

DrMom wrote:

In N. Korea, I assume the govt would just kill any infected persons.

Probably anyone who appears to be infected or symptomatic; however, it appears that there are many individuals who experience very mild or no symptoms at all (and N. Korea wouldn't have the medical infrastructure to test that many people). This is why China needs to do titer and immunity testing to actually determine how many people had the virus. It also explains why, as Dr. W. Ian Lipkin (virologist virus hunter) and the Dr. At WHO, explained that the mortality rate will probably decrease as immunity/titer testing is done because we are dealing with severe cases requiring medical attention or seeking out testing now but the virus definitely has a huge component of individuals who were infected and didn't know or seek treatment as it was so mild. The question is how likely individuals with mild or asymptomatic illness are go pass the virus on to others, and currently doctors believe it is possible, but that it shouldn't be a significant source of spreading the virus.

nchr

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 7:23 am

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

We all know that. But meantime China is under lockdown and there doesn't seem to be much hope for those in the epicenter of the outbreak.

What China is doing is relatively unprecedented, but we'll know in the next few days (if cases continue to decrease) just how successful (or not) it is.

amother

Blonde

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 7:23 am

Reportedly 5 million Chinese left Wuhan before the lockdown. And after the outbreak.
About 500 people have been infected on the Princess Cruises ship which was quarantined off of Japan after 1 person infected came in contact with them. Plenty of implications outside of the epicenter.
And most children in the epicenter reportedly do not seem to be suffering fatal effects.
Reports now are saying people can get reinfected and suffer fatal heart attack on second bout. f
First report of a Chinese bio lab near Wuhan came from an Israeli expert.
Satellite reports show indications of much higher levels of fatalities as indicated by specific type of "smog" due to after effects of cremating human bodies.
Too soon to draw any conclusions about much if anything yet.

amother

Aqua

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 7:31 am

nchr wrote:

What China is doing is relatively unprecedented, but we'll know in the next few days (if cases continue to decrease) just how successful (or not) it is.

I'm actually really impressed with the lockdown. It's undemocratic but quarantines work.

If we'd quarantined everyone with measles we would never have had an outbreak. Quarantines are legal, they used to be used and enforced, but no one likes them nowadays. Maybe that's a mistake.

Today "freedom of movement" for infected individuals has trumped the right of the majority to life and health.

amother

Aqua

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 7:31 am

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

Reportedly 5 million Chinese left Wuhan before the lockdown. And after the outbreak.
about 500 people have been infected on the Princess Cruises ship which was quarantined off of Japan after 1 person infected came in contact with them. Plenty of implications outside of the epicenter.
And most children in the epicenter reportedly do not seem to be suffering fatal effects.
Reports now are saying people can get reinfected and suffer fatal heart attack on second bout. first report of a Chinese bio lab near Wuhan came from an Israeli expert.
Too soon to draw any conclusions about much if anything yet.

Sources?

amother

Aqua

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 8:02 am

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

sorry running out to work now no time to track each to its source; basically
any variety of major news sources freely available on line and elsewhere

When you have time I'd love to see your sources. I've been following the issue closely and the only thing I've seen (from what you've said) is that children are less affected and there were over 500 cases on the Diamond Princess.

Laiya

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 8:04 am

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

It's so mean but I can't help thinking this may inadvertently solve China's population crisis.

Actually, China's population crisis has reversed. The one child policy was so successful that they have dipped below the population replacement rate. It's predicted that in about 2 or 3 more decades, they will have reached crisis levels in the other direction.

It's ironic, but the Chinese government has implemented incentives now for families to start having more than one child, but the one child policy is so ingrained in their psyches that these incentives are not working.

It's very sad and tragic.

Laiya

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 8:21 am

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

Freedom of movement--people are being chained inside their homes, with locks on the outside. Bars are installed on their windows. I don't know how they won't starve to death in their own homes, assuming they're not trapped by a fire, and this is just one example of the ways in which the Chinese government is said to be maintaining the quarantine. I don't think anyone who believes in democracy or the value of individual life can support such tactics.

amother

Lilac

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 8:24 am

Laiya wrote:

Ends justify the means. The masses v an individual. If allowing people to roam around means harming more people than locking up a few, many people would just see it as collateral damage

amother

Aqua

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 9:06 am

Laiya wrote:

The government is bringing food and supplies to their doorsteps. And in some areas people are allowed out for short times to purchase supplies, with masks on etc.

The value of individual FREEDOM does not top the value of the lives of the masses.

And if you look at the self-quarantine that many people returning from Taiwan and China are not really keeping - they are proud of it and speak to the media - you'll understand that self-quarantine does not work and if you want quarantine to be effective, you need to force it.

Again, the measles outbreak would never have happened - it would have ended with the first people who contracted the illness - if those who see measles as "no big deal" had acted responsibly and quarantined anyone who contracted it, instead of refusing home visits and insisting on bringing them INSIDE clinics, and taking them shopping, etc.

Laiya

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 9:09 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Ends justify the means. The masses v an individual. If allowing people to roam around means harming more people than locking up a few, many people would just see it as collateral damage

I don't agree that this is about sacrificing the few to save the many. It's about sacrificing the few or the many to protect the totalitarian government's image.

Laiya

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 9:11 am

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

No. This got out of hand because the Chinese government punished anyone who attempted to speak out in the beginning for, we still don't know how long.

amother

Aqua

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 9:22 am

Laiya wrote:

I don't agree that this is about sacrificing the few to save the many. It's about sacrificing the few or the many to protect the totalitarian government's image.

Laiya wrote:

No. This got out of hand because the Chinese government punished anyone who attempted to speak out in the beginning for, we still don't know how long.

Possibly but that is a totally different issue.

Speaking out is one thing. Violating quarantine and putting others' lives in danger is another.

This quarantine is a good thing. It is buying China and the rest of us time to work on a cure or vaccine or at least learn a bit about the virus, before it becomes a global epidemic.

Everyone returning home after a visit in the affected areas should be forcibly quarantined by their respective governments. Everyone. I don't care how undemocratic that sounds, if 25 people come back to the US from China carrying coronavirus, that can affect the entire US within less than two months if you don't lock those 25 people up for 14 days or 24 days or as long as it takes to make sure they're not contagious.

The freedom of those 25 is worth far, far, far, less than the health and lives of the rest of the US population. Period.