When will the coronavirus be over?

amother

Lilac

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 12:52 pm

Laiya wrote:

I don't agree that this is about sacrificing the few to save the many. It's about sacrificing the few or the many to protect the totalitarian government's image.

I've done a lot of work in China and with the Chinese. I understand Chinese mentality. I think it is also important to realize that they do not view being left alone to fend for themselves locked in a building the same way Americans do. You do not have to project your cultural ethics and feelings onto individuals who certainly feel differently. I actually learned a lot about parenting from the Chinese and I implement it in my own home with my children.

It may protect the government's image in some sense, but it harms it in other ways as well. China also did a decent job with the hospital and SARS so they are trying something new now.

That being said, of course I feel badly for everyone who is in lockdown. I feel bad for a child who may have an asthma attack or a mother giving birth with a complication etc. However, I also understand that in a country of approximately 1.5 billion individuals, it would be irresponsible to let potentially sick individuals out in the open public simply because you'd end up with a situation where the public health system wouldn't be able to help everyone anyways. For example, if 1.5 billion individuals became sick within a matter of months, hospitals would need to turn the sick away (even if a large percentage had mild symptoms or were asymptomatic). Essentially, they wouldn't get the treatment they needed anyways. So, locking people up now, while horrible on an individual level, is obviously better for the overall community and world. It is not only protecting lives but also protecting the health care system.

Would you cut off your arm to save your life? I would. Your children hope you would too.

Last edited by amother on Sat, Jan 02 2021, 11:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

FranticFrummie

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 1:09 pm

Does anyone else find it concerning that there is an attitude of "It's not such a bad flu." or "It's only dangerous if you are sick and elderly."?

Ageism and ableism are all over this thread. Just thin out the herd and leave the young and healthy, right? As an older person with pre-existing conditions, I have to wonder how fast you would throw me under the bus. Nice to know I'm so expendable. Rolling Eyes

Laiya

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 1:15 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I'm actually horrified at this thread tbh

etky

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 1:15 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Yes.
There's a flippant undertone to some of the posts here in regard to both the potential severity of the situation and its outcomes so far, that I don't understand or appreciate.

Laiya

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 1:21 pm

nchr wrote:

So in the Chinese mentality, it's not such a big deal? The terror and desperation in this video clip show otherwise:

https://twitter.com/BrutumF/st.....90176

Eta. I also think it's bizarre to accuse me of projecting my cultural values, rather than to demonstrate empathy--or at the least, agree that empathy is called for

hannah22

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 1:42 pm

It is all so confusing and also one doesn't really know how safe it is to use public transport, go to places etc. As apparently one can have it without showing any symptoms. Very scary. For example, someone told me recently that they feel unwell after travelling (not to China), and I'm confused now as to whether I should meet them at all at the moment. (I was meant to be meeting with this person). Apparently this is airborne meaning it can be caught through sneezes and coughs but even potentially in the air Surprised

Life has become so confusing because we know so little about this virus, we don't know how it's transmitted, its origin, if it can return once recovered, nothing at all. Also for people with immune problems it's extra scary, or for anyone with existing health problems of any kind. Parents don't know whether it's safe to send their children to school here in the UK. It's difficult because one doesn't want to panic and spread anxiety, but we also have to be careful with hygiene and do all that we can.
I pray that this will end NOW and that the suffering will end, the virus will be eradicated NOW and that everyone affected will have a total healing BH.

amother

Aqua

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 1:47 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

It was the same way with the measles outbreak. And it's the same with flu.

As if anyone whose child has a preexisting condition doesn't deserve to see their child grow up ch"v.

finallyamommy

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 7:07 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Agreed. You know who else is hit hard by these kinds of viruses? The pregnant women and the babies. I'm sure none of us know anyone at all in those categories... /s

nchr

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 9:31 pm

Laiya wrote:

Is the following not a demonstration of empathy? It's horrible, but the alternative may also be horrible. It is a lesser of two evils...

nchr wrote:

That being said, of course I feel badly for everyone who is in lockdown. I feel bad for a child who may have an asthma attack or a mother giving birth with a complication etc. However, I also understand that in a country of approximately 1.5 billion individuals, it would be irresponsible to let potentially sick individuals out in the open public simply because you'd end up with a situation where the public health system wouldn't be able to help everyone anyways.

nchr

Wed, Feb 19 2020, 10:50 pm

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

This novel corona virus is very different than the flu or measles -- much more serious -- as evidenced if by nothing else then by governments' reactions, necessary restrictions, quarantines, and the like.

It is less contagious than measles.
It has a higher mortality rate than an average flu, but lesser than the Spanish Flu.
It is about as contagious as the flu, which is quite contagious.
However, the reason it needs to be contained is because it is novel and new. That means no one has immunity so whoever is exposed to enough of a viral load will get the virus, and even if only 14%% of cases moderate, 5% are critical and 2% (current statistic likely to lessen when we find more mild cazes) result in death, that would be millions of people in China and billions in the world, which would completely cripple economies and health care, amongst other factors. So yes, while the majority of people would be fine and the human race would not be wiped out, there could be other serious consequences, including the loss of life (even if its lethality is around 1-2%)

amother

Blonde

Fri, Feb 21 2020, 5:39 am

Right -- and as you point out the numbers are potentially staggering R"L.
The trajectory of the disease itself is also: fever, cough, difficulty breathing, pain and lesions in lungs, organ failure, death for some the numbers/percentage of which remain to be determined.
Spanish flu wiped out a significant portion of Europe.
People seem to use the word "flu" in what can be a misleading way as it seems to cover a wide range of viruses across the spectrum of mild to very severe.
There is also much controversy over the official statistics put out by China. Clearly, much has yet to be determined. Also as evidenced by the petri dish contagion of the Princess Cruises perhaps well intentioned yet failed quarantine. Seemingly over 50-200 people were infected by one person at a church event in S.Korea overnight.
IY"H Hashem's Rachmanus will prevail.

teachkids

Fri, Feb 21 2020, 6:03 am

nchr wrote:

This is one aspect of why it’s so frightening- the total lack of immunity, but also the long incubation period enables it to spread. Because you can be contagious for so long while feeling fine, you will continue traveling and shopping and exposing people without realizing it.

amother

Blonde

Fri, Feb 21 2020, 6:09 am

Yes -- now they are saying 2 to 3 weeks!
Even some of the people taken off those two cruise ships which were quarantined were found to test positive as they departed. There was a delay and controversy in evacuating the Americans as some were found to test positive once they were already on the bus bound for the chartered plane-- they did bring them back with the view that they could quarantine them from the others even while on the plane. And I so hope they were right. Poor people. And had to be such a tough call.
Scarier when people test not positive then travel then test positive?!?
While taking whatever practical steps possible to do my hishtadlus
working on increasing my bitachon and emunah.

amother

Blonde

Fri, Feb 21 2020, 6:30 am

Amen!
Oy -- Hopefully there has been time to prepare and at least sounds like governments and particularly Israel have done so.
At the very least when someone comes in like this presumably their status can be monitored. It is crazy to think of a "wild card" which is why monitoring and screening of people from Asian/more highly impacted destinations and the like have been set up and flights cancelled and decreased to and from those countries.
May it be so! And contained easily and efficiently and with only mild cases if any more at all.
Is there a name(s) for davening/tehilim?

DrMom

Fri, Feb 21 2020, 6:55 am

nchr wrote:

Okay, I'll bite:

How do Chinese people view being sick and locked up and abandoned?

I would have have thought it was a universal human emotion to view this negatively, but I am prepared to be enlightened.

Along these same lines, maybe we shouldn't have been upset by all the little baby girls who were abandoned and starved to death in "dying rooms" in Chinese orphanages during the one-child-per-family era. Maybe we were just viewing this through the prism on Western civilization. Maybe all those little girls didn't mind starving to death for the greater cause of population control.

nchr wrote:

I actually learned a lot about parenting from the Chinese and I implement it in my own home with my children.

Like what?