What are people thinking??????

amother

Taupe

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 4:53 am

Flip Flops wrote:

I get really upset about such topics, so I apologize if my post comes across in a bad way, just can't help it.
WHY DO PEOPLE GET SO CONCERNED ABOUT V'AHAVTA L'RAIACHA KAMOCHA AND YET NOBODY CARES TO DEFEND HASHEM'S KAVOD WHEN THERE IS A CLEAR BREACH IN MODESTY?
Pinchos saw actions that were a clear breach of morality and instead of standing by and saying,"oy, I don't want to make them feel bad..." he stood up and TOOK ACTION. And guess what? He is praised and rewarded by Hashem.
We live in a generation where nobody cares anymore to stand up for halacha. For kedusha. To say when something is wrong.
Immodest dress on Purim is terrible. Showing off a pregnant belly in such a manner is clear immodesty. Not cute, not funny. It doesn't matter how many people do it, it is wrong. Op, I get you 100%. Not saying you should hurt or offend the women who is dressed up, but it should HURT YOU. It should bother you.
Not because she is a bad person, or is doing anything wrong on her level. She many not be aware, she may not come from the same background as you, etc. etc. (I have a big speech on the concept of not judging others, but that's for a different time.) But it should bother you.

We are actually not supposed to learn zealotry from the story of Pinchas. His behaviour falls under a very unique legal category defined by very specific criteria, “halachah v’ein morin kein” - “a law that is not instructed.”

Even Moshe himself was not allowed to do what Pinchas did because he hesitated, and as soon as one is even ASKS if he is allowed to kill in the name of zealotry, he is automatically disqualified. That’s because a real zealot is utterly selfless, with NO personal feelings involved - not even the worry that he may be doing the wrong thing. He just wants the situation he sees to stop. As soon as any personal thoughts or doubts arise, he ceases to be a “zealot”.

Moral of the story? Unless you think you’re even greater than Moshe Rabbenu and have absolutely NO ulterior motives in criticising your fellow Jew, stick to the Ahavas Yisroel and leave the zealotry and judgement to those greater than us.

DrMom

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 4:58 am

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

I have a chassidish neighbor that came to shul in a very, very tight skirt and top and she had a big animal headband with ears and pom pom tail on her (very large) rear end. It wiggled as she waddled out of shul in her skin tight outfit.
Now this women is about 40 and she wore this to shul for megillah. It struck me so odd that a women this age chooses to dress up like a kid, and attract attention. Its says a lot what you wear on purim, and what you want to be.

Are you upset that she dressed up at all (because it "attracts attention" and that is not, IYO, age-appropriate) or that she was dressed in tight clothing?

"Its says a lot what you wear on purim, and what you want to be"

What does this mean? If a boy dresses as Haman, does that mean he wants to be wicked?

amother

Cerise

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 6:27 am

DrMom wrote:

First of all, I'm not upset. It struck me odd that a grown woman would choose to wear an animal to shul with a tail, and skin tight clothing that emphasizes on her boobs and behind.

And please don't compare a child dressing up something funky, to a mature 40 year old married woman.
(Happens to be, sometimes a kid chooses an army or police etc., bc they wanna feel powerful. My quiet, geeky, nature loving, son chose to dress up as a tree.) But let's not compare the two.

Purim is one day that people let loose. Sometimes they want to dress as something they can't do otherwise all year long. I was chiming in to OP that the gumball costume, is possibly bc the woman was feeling proud of her pregnancy, so she chose to dress up in a way to announce it

This woman in shul dressing up in a provocative way, was feeling proud with her costume, showing it off to everyone, while most people were giving her the weird looks...Me personally? Was unimpressed and didn't find it tasteful in any way. Each to their own.

amother

Turquoise

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 6:34 am

Ok, so this woman dressed in a way that I would not. These things happen all the time.

In a charedi neighborhood near me, lots of little boys dress up as Cossacks for Purim. While it's not quite as bad as a Nazi uniform with a swastika armband, it is pretty awful and to my mind shows a terrible lack of judgement. Why dress up as people who raped and murdered our ancestors? But I just assume that the parents aren't thinking deeply, and ignore it.

We don't all have the same sensitivities. That's life.

amother

Cerise

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 6:38 am

amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:

.

Oh, I do know that. I was only sharing my personal opinion, like most of you.

amother

Azure

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 9:37 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Seriously!!! I saw a very pregnant lady dressed up as a gumball machine. She wore a tight white shell exposing her perfectly round large stomach. She stuck on pom poms on her stomach for gumballs; was like a ball of pom poms. It looked awful and so distasteful. Do people have no seichel?????

OP, please do not defend yourself. Your post is ok. I wish frum society would be more sensitive to
basic tznius.

amother

Azure

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 9:39 am

Metukah wrote:

I'm chassidish and always defend chassidus to the sky (check out my posting history), but I think you are grossly exaggerating. 1. Amothers post does not seem to be bashing. 2. It is not generally acceptable in the chassidish world, to discuss pregnancy with children etc... So it would not make sense or be considered acceptable at all to dress up in a way that directly references a pregnant belly. These days we discuss our pregnancies in public and with everyone, but my mother is only just getting used to the idea. Not so many years ago it was hidden and barely mentioned. My children learn in a BY type school, mainly, but not exclusively chassidish, and it is frowned upon to discuss pregnancy with children. It has been told to us on more than one occasion. That is why, when we tell our children about upcoming births we tell them it is a secret only for our family. You say you are from an extreme kj family, I'm not from a very chassidish family, never mind extreme, so I won't believe you if you tell me that it is okay to discuss pregnancy with children.
OP sorry for derailing.

I am as chasidish as the kj family, we do discuss pregnancy as my children ask questions about their aunts. and I havent been pregnant for nine years.

amother

Cerise

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 10:05 am

There are no clear lines in tznius. Its a feeling. What my neighbor wears may look immodest on me. Sometimes the combination of what one wears can look less tznius. A person has to use their common sense..
I once saw a cute maternity top, but didnt
feel comfortable buying it. It wasnt red, it didnt have lettering, nor was it tight. It had newborn footprints by the belly area. While some people would wear it, in my circles I didnt feel it was appropriate...

amother

Burlywood

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 10:27 am

I think the concern about tznius on Purim is valid, and I myself saw a few costumes that were very inappropriate. One was extremely inappropriate. While I think you have every right to be bothered as you obviously feel this is a lack of tznius, I think it is so wrong to post it in this way. You are singling out and specifically describing a woman who may very well be on this site and see this post. If I was her, and didn’t think there was anything wrong with my outfit, more so probably thought it was a cute idea, and I saw this post I would feel so upset, hurt and embarrassed.
FYI embarrassing someone is a lot worse than anything your concerned about.

Next time skip the shaming and just talk about how women dressing not tzniusly so clearly bothers you.

amother

Orange

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 1:51 pm

This is when good, fine Jews become desensitized to natural inborn modesty courtesy of the secular culture. When Lucille Ball was expecting on her show I Love Lucy, the producer didn't allow the word "pregnant" on the show. And here we are defending a Jewish woman flaunting her pregnant belly and decorating it and many posters not even grasping the inappropriateness in all of this.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 1:54 pm

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

It's funny how such statements fluctuate between "even the non jews" and "only the non jews".

amother

Turquoise

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 4:29 pm

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

To be fair, avoiding all mention of pregnancy is a Victorian hang-up. It has no basis in Jewish culture. The Torah and the gemara mention pregnancy without resorting to euphemisms. Pregnancy is a wonderful state, not something shameful to be hidden.

Now, do I think you should wear skin-tight clothing? No, but I feel that way in general. There's nothing more immodest about a belly bump than any other body part.

amother

Orange

Thu, Mar 12 2020, 8:14 pm

amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:

Breastfeeding is a wonderful state too. Why not flaunt your breasts?

Tznius.