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Purim damage - I hate drunk teenagers!
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 2:41 pm
Vent, I guess. Why always me??? Last year Purim we visited family in Jerusalem and a very drunk bochur saw fit to jump onto our car while we were driving. He left a big dent which has annoyed me all year. This year, we left the car home in our yishuv 50 km away from Jerusalem, parked in the regular place, in front of our house, in a long row of parked cars. Guess what - I just discovered 3 big footprints and a new dent on the hood. Why do these allegedly good frum kids always damage other people's property when drunk? I grew up secular and in a non-Jewish environment and was heavily drunk many a time as a teenager but I never used that as an excuse to vandalize anything! Great success of frum education! At wits end
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 3:08 pm
It's a plague. Every community needs to take responsibility for its children. I hated that hefkerut where we used to live.

That's actually something that we really appreciate where we live now - there are plenty of children and a kfar noar, but also a lot of responsible adult supervision, and
vandalism doesn't seem to happen.
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amother




Red
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 3:29 pm
I have kids banging on my door constantly today. And they trespass on my grass. What is wrong with these kids that they are not taught respect for others? Is it the moms or the schools?
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amother




Saddlebrown
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 3:35 pm
I'm not talking anything's away from what you wrote and it's super upsetting! It's sad that jewish teenagers behave that way especially on purim.
Just keep in mind that nothing happens in the world without hashem wanting to happen, it's not by chance that your car got ruined!!
(Signed by someone who got 2 slashed tires on purim morning, in my case probably not a drunk teenager but an antisemitic one, or just plain stupid!!!)
It should be a kappara! Sad
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 3:39 pm
Every time I see those groups my heart hurts. Those are someone’s kids. If only their moms would see them now.
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Ema of 4




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 3:45 pm
amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:
I'm not talking anything's away from what you wrote and it's super upsetting! It's sad that jewish teenagers behave that way especially on purim.
Just keep in mind that nothing happens in the world without hashem wanting to happen, it's not by chance that your car got ruined!!
(Signed by someone who got 2 slashed tires on purim morning, in my case probably not a drunk teenager but an antisemitic one, or just plain stupid!!!)
It should be a kappara! Sad

We all have free will, and WE determine how we behave, not HaShem. He didn’t decide that these kids should get drunk- they decided it on their own, and HaShem made that path easier for them. He didn’t will it. It’s a hard concept to understand, but HaShem guides things, he doesn’t will them, at least not day to day things.
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 4:01 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Vent, I guess. Why always me??? Great success of frum education! At wits end


Yes, that's it. The frum boys are taught in yeshivah to dent cars and they all go out on Purim to do this hiddur mitzvah.

For sure it is not an isolated hefekerdige bochur. It is ALL the frum bochurim ALL the time.

Good thread to spread ahavas yisroel post purim. I hope I wasn't a recipient from your mishloach manos that was supposed to promote friendship.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 4:02 pm
Zehava wrote:
Every time I see those groups my heart hurts. Those are someone’s kids. If only their moms would see them now.


Well, part of the problem is that their moms sit at home and prepare the se'udah or eat it and chat or something while their kids fill up with alcohol and run wild outside unsupervised. The moms to a degree choose not to see them.

As to why it had to happen to me twice in successive years in different settings - it has crossed my mind that Hashem is trying to tell me something with it. But right now I'm so annoyed that I just want to go and pay the repair out of the tzedakah box, like, You send me this damage, alright, now I'll take Your money to pay for it! Hah! Of course that's halachically out of order and a totally bad attitude and I'll not really do that. But just writing it makes me feel a tiny bit better.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 4:17 pm
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
Yes, that's it. The frum boys are taught in yeshivah to dent cars and they all go out on Purim to do this hiddur mitzvah.

For sure it is not an isolated hefekerdige bochur. It is ALL the frum bochurim ALL the time.

Good thread to spread ahavas yisroel post purim. I hope I wasn't a recipient from your mishloach manos that was supposed to promote friendship.


It was at least 2 bochurim, one last year and one this year. And this year's was probably the son of some neighbors of ours. Where is his ahavat Israel? Or his parents', who let him out like that? My own sons are too small to drink yet, but if in future years I ever catch them drunk and vandalizing other people's stuff, I'll punish them that they never forget it. Pity that other people don't do that. Maybe they'll understand only when their property gets damaged.
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amother




Mauve
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 4:31 pm
OP have you ever been drunk? Like blackout drunk? I have woken up and not known where I was or who I was with. And I was crying out of gratitude yesterday that Hashem saved me from myself. It's as if you are possessed by a shed and have no control. My heart hurts for those boys. It's so sad. They just keep drinking their neshamas are so thirsty to experience Hashem ... They get excited and don't know how to cut themselves off.

If they were sober they never would do half the things they do drunk.
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miami85




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 4:32 pm
amother [ Red ] wrote:
I have kids banging on my door constantly today. And they trespass on my grass. What is wrong with these kids that they are not taught respect for others? Is it the moms or the schools?


As a mother who tries very hard to instill proper values and manners in my children I can say sometimes its NOT the parents' fault. There is so much we can do, teach and model. I have a child or two who think I'm the meanest mommy in the world and I "rely" on other adult to "yell" at my kids because they won't listen to me. It's not like I'm not trying.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 4:41 pm
amother [ Mauve ] wrote:
OP have you ever been drunk? Like blackout drunk? I have woken up and not known where I was or who I was with. And I was crying out of gratitude yesterday that Hashem saved me from myself. It's as if you are possessed by a shed and have no control. My heart hurts for those boys. It's so sad. They just keep drinking their neshamas are so thirsty to experience Hashem ... They get excited and don't know how to cut themselves off.

If they were sober they never would do half the things they do drunk.


I have been drunk to the point of being unconscious on the floor with total memory loss. At the house of friends many years ago. But I didn't damage anything and didn't do anything indecent other than throwing up. I asked several people to make sure.

Of course the boys wouldn't behave like they did when sober. But maybe that's then a reason to drink a bit less to avoid reaching that point. And if the boys can't restrain their drinking, their parents should.
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amother




Black
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 5:30 pm
amother [ Mauve ] wrote:
OP have you ever been drunk? Like blackout drunk? I have woken up and not known where I was or who I was with. And I was crying out of gratitude yesterday that Hashem saved me from myself. It's as if you are possessed by a shed and have no control. My heart hurts for those boys. It's so sad. They just keep drinking their neshamas are so thirsty to experience Hashem ... They get excited and don't know how to cut themselves off.

If they were sober they never would do half the things they do drunk.


I’ve been drunk on many occasions as well and I agree sometimes you just don’t know what you’re doing but to feel sorry for these boys, I don’t think so. They know the consequences of what happens when you drink too much. And if they don’t their parents should have told them. No sympathy for them. If they’re old enough to be given alcohol then they’re old enough to be held accountable for their actions
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amother




Sienna
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 5:55 pm
They actually aren't old enough to be given alcohol. Legal drinking age in U.S. is 21. So no American teenagers should be provided with enough alcohol to become drunk, Purim or no purim.
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Ema of 4




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 6:06 pm
amother [ Mauve ] wrote:
OP have you ever been drunk? Like blackout drunk? I have woken up and not known where I was or who I was with. And I was crying out of gratitude yesterday that Hashem saved me from myself. It's as if you are possessed by a shed and have no control. My heart hurts for those boys. It's so sad. They just keep drinking their neshamas are so thirsty to experience Hashem ... They get excited and don't know how to cut themselves off.

If they were sober they never would do half the things they do drunk.

This is an excuse to do damage to someone else’s property? If kids are drinking enough to the point of blacking our and losing memories, their parents probably KNOW they have an issue. If they let their kids out of their sight and they drink on Purim, that is as much on the parents as it is on the kids.
And no, I am NOT usually one to blame parents for kids behavior.
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Ema of 4




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 6:06 pm
amother [ Sienna ] wrote:
They actually aren't old enough to be given alcohol. Legal drinking age in U.S. is 21. So no American teenagers should be provided with enough alcohol to become drunk, Purim or no purim.

This was in Israel.
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Ravenclaw




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 8:02 pm
I do find it (funny? Ironic? Horrifying? Upsetting? Weird? Can’t find the right word) that 14 year olds are going around publicly drunk when the legal drinking age is 21, to the point of blacking out on strangers couches, and they are on their own—unsupervised!—hanging out of the back of trucks and lolling in the gutter, AND EVERYONE IS OKAY WITH IT! And most of the parents are okay with it.
It’s just. Wow.
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lilies




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 8:09 pm
What about those knocking on moving cars' windows asking for money?
Purim is the one day to be extra cautious while walking and crossing. Nope. Stand in the way of moving vehicles and try to collect.
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amother




Mauve
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 8:19 pm
Their parents don't always know. And the kids don't actually know what happens. Not really until it happens to them. And no it's really hard to not do it when everyone else is doing it. You have to have a strong sense of self esteem. Which comes not just from parents but is also a gift from Hashem. We can't always blame parents. Some kids are born with their own nisyonot.

They do need adult help and supervision.

My American college had a binge drinking problem. We all knew we were going out and getting $#!*faced but we didn't understand the repercussions.

And honestly if you didn't do anything to embarrass yourself while trashed. You were just lucky. It's not that you were cognisant enough to do the right thing.

Purim drinking is like college binging. Maybe we need the wives and mother's to bartend. Maybe the yeshiva boys need women planning the seudah and making sure that the drinking is being kept in check for them.

They need our help.
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Ema of 4




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Mar 12 2020, 7:10 am
amother [ Mauve ] wrote:
Their parents don't always know. And the kids don't actually know what happens. Not really until it happens to them. And no it's really hard to not do it when everyone else is doing it. You have to have a strong sense of self esteem. Which comes not just from parents but is also a gift from Hashem. We can't always blame parents. Some kids are born with their own nisyonot.

They do need adult help and supervision.

My American college had a binge drinking problem. We all knew we were going out and getting $#!*faced but we didn't understand the repercussions.

And honestly if you didn't do anything to embarrass yourself while trashed. You were just lucky. It's not that you were cognisant enough to do the right thing.

Purim drinking is like college binging. Maybe we need the wives and mother's to bartend. Maybe the yeshiva boys need women planning the seudah and making sure that the drinking is being kept in check for them.

They need our help.

Or maybe, just maybe, rebbis and roshei yeshiva should be getting up and speaking out against under aged drinking. There are other ways to be mekayem the mitzvah. The people who these boys are looking up to should be setting a good example.
But of course it’s not just on them. These boys who are being encouraged to go collecting should not be offered a lechaim at every house they go to.
And parents should be teaching their kids that if they are going to drink, they need to be and act responsible. Be the one who says “it’s ok, I’ve had enough, I don’t need more.” Be the one to say “that doesn’t belong to us, we need to stay away.” Be the one to say “ I think now is a good time to call a sober driver.”
Sorry, women don’t need to be responsible for EVERYTHING, men and boys can be responsible too.
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