Can everyone calm down and stop being mean and bossy?

small bean

Mon, Mar 23 2020, 7:28 pm

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

I live OOT. Our governor is saying to shelter in place for the next 3 weeks. So I don't think I'll be getting together with married kids in town, even if we've been safe for 2+ weeks after being exposed.

That's a choice you can make. I think allowing people to make their own choices is the point. Letting people see for themselves.

I don't even do guest or anything, I just think dictating what other people should do is wrong.

amother

Scarlet

Mon, Mar 23 2020, 8:15 pm

small bean wrote:

I care about everyone's life. I don't think anyone's life is more at rik today th a yesterday. This is still a tiny killer compared to cars and I don't see cars being banned.

I don't think healthcare workers are more likely to die today than 2 months ago.

I think this is fear driving the attitude and not reality.

BDE
One of our hospital employees died today from COVID -19.
I am in NJ.
I'm sure his family will take a lot of consolation in the fact that you think that he was just as likely to die 2 months ago.

21young

Mon, Mar 23 2020, 8:36 pm

I was one of the attackers on the other thread, and I’m proud to say I would repeat every word. (I was anon there because of identifying details.) I am staying home for Pesach under very difficult conditions because I care about my parents, myself, and the strangers I don’t know. In my mind those who don’t practice social distancing are like anti vaxxers who rely on the rest of the world to do the tough stuff for them. It’s idiocy, it’s selfish, and it must be stopped. No one’s comfort or convenience is more important than minyan or Mikvah - if the rabbanim are davening beyechidus than we can eat our matzah beyechidus.

amother

Peach

Mon, Mar 23 2020, 10:07 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

We're all stressed and scared and anxious and worried. But why are some people taking it out on others with so much anger? On the other thread a healthy amother in her 40s dared to mention that she was having her married kids over for pesach and people went ballistic on the poor woman. Can you all calm the heck down? She didn't say her kids are planning on dancing in the streets or that they're running rampant through grocery stores or that they're even coming in from another state. These are her married kids that have been around her and her family already. So if anything, they're the same as anyone else self quarantining, except with each other.

The world is fragile right now. We were sent this challenge, we don't know why or what to make of it but I think it's up to all of us to do what we can to 1.keep the world as safe as we can and 2. stop thinking that you are in control of this virus by yelling/bossing and insulting everyone else.

Most people said what I was thinking on this thread but I'm going to try to be really blunt right now to get the point across.

Everyone feels healthy... married children come. Married daughter stopped in a neighbors house to pick up something to bring to mother in law, touches door knob, then touches face. Married daughter has gotten the COVID-19 virus.

Then daughter goes to the house for pesach with her family. Everyone is happy. During chol hamoed, daughter says hi to mother's neighbor. Comes into house for a minute talks and chats. touches counter top. Leaves house. Neighbor touches counter top and contracts virus- passes it on to her husband- Who develops symptoms..

A week later Daughter's 40 year old healthy mother develops symptoms.. Starts dry coughing, nausous. Everyone is worrying. Next day develops a fever. Daughter does not have symptoms (but has contracted the virus). Mother gets sicker. Healthy 40 year old mother. Gd forbid ends up on a respirator and dies.

Neighbor passes it to young 20 year old daughter who has asthma... can die...

YOUNG HEALTH PEOPLE ARE DYING AS WELL.
this virus is 3 times more contagious than the flu. It can live on surfaces up to days... And this all happened because that married woman did not stay home. People are angry because this is a matter of life and death and people are not realizing this.

ora_43

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:44 am

small bean wrote:

There's no such thing as a society where everyone does what they want, and nobody dictates to other people. Maybe I don't feel like paying taxes toward road repair. Maybe I feel like I should be allowed to burn my garbage wherever I want. Maybe my choice would be to import live animals from anywhere on earth without government officials getting all nosy. Maybe I choose to play disco music at full volume at 3 am.

Living in a society of people means there are rules. By definition. Rules that allow us to leave together peacefully, without causing each other harm.

I get that this is a very unusual situation, with new rules, and rules that are often unclear (how far from my house can I go, and when, and what if I already had the virus... etc). But the basic concepts apply. Expecting people to abide by rules that keep us all safe isn't mean or judgmental, it's the bedrock of human society.

Within the framework of those rules there's room to choose.

chanchy123

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 6:10 am

amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:

I want to be angry.

I want to be mean.

I want to snap.

But,

I have to be nice to DH,

I have to be nice to the kids.

So sorry imamothers, you will be the dear recipients of my anger, tension and overwhelmed self.

Ohmygosh are you me? I found myself being preachy and mean on our community WhatsApp group and I totally feel like it’s my outlet. I’m going to try to ignore the group from now on, but I might unleash the beast here 😬😬😬

amother

Coffee

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 7:58 am

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

Are you in total isolation? Have you not gone out for any food shopping? Have you not received mail or deliveries?

southernbubby

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 8:24 am

amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

Are you in total isolation? Have you not gone out for any food shopping? Have you not received mail or deliveries?

We are all at some level of risk but apparently going into a crowd is the most risky thing to do, only second to having unprotected contact with someone who is sick with the virus.
We should handle mail and packages with gloves and then wash our hands for 20 seconds. I also use bleach spray on doorknobs and other contaminated objects.

singleagain

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 8:26 am

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

I'm not advocating for stopping social distancing. Or lifting any restrictions. But this is why the CDC and WHO is saying. Don't touch your face. Wash your hands. And sanitize surfaces.

gold21

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 8:29 am

small bean wrote:

I personally am staying home and have no skin in the game. I always stay home. I still think this is a major overreaction on everyones part including the OU. If come pesach there is no lockdown rules, then everyone can do what they want.

Being a healthcare worker means putting your life at risk. It was a choice you made when you went into this field. I think healthcare workers are heroes but don't complain that your life is at risk.

I think any statements about pesach is premature.

So the fact that healthcare workers are lacking adequate stock of Personal Protective Equipment such as N95 masks is of no concern to you. The fact that this country was wholly unprepared for this pandemic and healthcare workers are being put on the front lines without proper equipment, while the country rushes to produce and order more equipment, eh. Who cares.

Hey, you chose to put your health at risk by signing up for this field. Lack of access to Protective Equipment, eh, stop kvetching.

This is all an exaggeration. So what if many people in the frum community are hospitalized. Car accidents happen daily. Therefore, who cares.

Confused

Last edited by gold21 on Tue, Mar 24 2020, 8:34 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Coffee

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 8:33 am

southernbubby wrote:

Then same applies to married dd going to parents. She is not going to a crowd. She is going to her parents who want her to come. She can be careful with washing, sanitizing and will not socialize with neighbors. How is that different from her parents going to a store?
Now if her parents or her are in full quarantine then of course she should not go.

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 8:45 am

gold21 wrote:

You know, like a soldier is volunteering for a risky position.

But he doesn't expect to be sent to the front lines without proper equipment.

But you know, if he gets called up and sent to the front lines without proper equipment, because too many soldiers are needed at once, then who cares?

It's much better to just let him die than to make sure he is properly protected.

amother

Coffee

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 8:47 am

small bean wrote:

Some risk not something like this where its exploding and none knows where it’s heading. And not enough supplies.

southernbubby

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 8:48 am

amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

I can only answer for myself. I am 65 and can't spend time with my family and can only take walks and supposedly zekeinim hour (7 a.m.) at the store is lower risk for me. My family won't come to visit because some of them have been in stores. DD is suffering from this plague and I can't go help her and I feel lousy about that. I never imagined that I would have to abandon my daughter and I am praying that her DH stays healthy and can handle the kids, one of whom is infected and miserable.
People who look healthy carry the virus and it can travel on the clothing and hair of people who have been exposed.
A 36 year old Brooklyn school principal (not Jewish) just died of the virus, leaving her community bereft.
I guess that everyone makes choices about what risks to take but why would we not want to protect ourselves as much as possible?
According to Rabbi YY Jacobson, the Jews invented quarantine and it is mentioned in the gemorah.