Which is worse... | Imamother

southernbubby

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 2:50 pm

seeker wrote:

Again, I believe the more pertinent question is "how can the mental health of vulnerable people be supported" rather than "is it better to spread illness and death."

I have seen ads for mental health intervention for my area. I would think that group therapy via Zoom could help a lot of people.

I think that if two lonely people, who don't visit anyone but each other, get together for the sake of mental health, it may be a lower risk situation than to allow serious depression to set in.

ora_43

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 2:52 pm

amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

While there are some exceptions, I think close to 100% of society has made changes with 90% of us making significant changes basically isolating ourselves. Why would this outbreak meaningfully continue in around 3 weeks?

Because the number of people who are ill is growing. So even though the number of people each person spreads it to is shrinking, the overall number of new cases might stay steady or even grow.

100 people each spread to 3 people = 300 new cases.

1,000 people each spread it to 0.5 people = 500 new cases.

We're still not at a point of zero human contact. And never will be, since there are still people working in essential jobs, and leaving the house for essential activities (groceries, etc). Plus of course people spending time with their immediate family. So we're not going to get down to 0 transmission.

Don't get me wrong, I do think and hope that things will get better, and that we'll start to see a dropoff in new cases in the near future. But it probably won't be a sharp immediate drop. We'll know the social distancing is working if/when the number of new cases as a percent of existing cases starts to fall (eg above example - 300 is 300% of 100, but 500 is 50% of 1,000, so those 500 new cases would actually be a sign that social distancing is working).

amother

Mint

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 2:55 pm

I'm worried about Pesach. It's a three day yom tov for everyone in chutz la'aretz, and there are people literally spending the entire thing alone. That's not only two seders completely by themselves, but no ability to connect with others by phone or virtually. And yes, there are ways to manage this, but for the older adults, it might still be too risky.

amother

Scarlet

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 3:03 pm

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

I don't think that statistically there is the same risk of loss of life from quarantining/stress as there is from actually getting sick with covid.

It would be pretty close with how our mental health will be after this pandemic! But seriously actually having the virus can be absolutely terrible! To fatal cv! My sil is SO ill from it. She only just managed to have the strength to brush her teeth today, its been a few days. She couldn't stand at the sink! No strength at all and this is day 10+ I've lost count. Hashem should keep us all from this terrible virus.
I got some vitamin tablets to calm me down they're bh really helping with my anxiety and stress. Maybe everyone can get hold of some too. Feel good fellow imas x

May all the cholim have a refuah sheleima b'korov!

seeker

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 3:06 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

More people are going to die from the stress/anxiety/depression than from the actual virus

We have more experience preventing and treating stress, anxiety, and depression. Again, the question is not whether but how to ameliorate these effects.
And the only way more people are dying from stress is if people stop dying from COVID. Current death rates are distinctly higher for COVID as far as I'm aware.

ora_43

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 3:07 pm

And now, ignore my above post, and join me in repeating: it is not forever.

Today stinks. But just today itself is doable, yeah? It's the thought of doing this for another two weeks, or month, or more, that makes it feel truly hellish.

So ignore that thought. I know, easier said than done. But really - it's just today. Maybe tomorrow will also be like today. If it is, you'll get through that one, single day, too.

And in the meantime, buy and enjoy a trashy book on Kindle. Or call a friend. Or google "penguins on stairs" and watch penguins hopping down stairs. Or watch all those videos on YouTube where formerly-deaf babies hear their mothers' voices for the first times, or puppies first encounter snow.

Something is going to make you feel better. Figure out what it is.

And also - remember that what we're doing now, all of us, is an act of love. We feel separate, but in a way we're more together than we have been for a long time. We're all working together to beat this thing.

If all you can do during this time is curl up in bed and wait for it to be over - you're amazing for doing that. Really. This is humanity at its best, and you're a part of that.

seeker

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 3:09 pm

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

Yes, it will take thoughtful planning to help people manage this. Yom tov is going to be very hard for a lot of people. I imagine many will deem it worth breaking isolation for this. I think there's room to hope that there can be safe ways to do that, since it will have been a month since this started, so if people have been isolated from Purim until Pesach and haven't had any symptoms or known exposure it shouldn't be such a bad deal for people who live alone to pair up. Keep it to not more than pairs, and only people who live alone, so that way you're not throwing together too many variables.

amother

Blue

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 3:16 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

More people are going to die from the stress/anxiety/depression than from the actual virus

No one dies from stress. Some die from suicide. But percentage wise, less people will die from suicide than from corona. The stress is real. GET SUPPORT. many therapists are available through Skype. You can take medication if you need to. There are ways to help yourself.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 3:40 pm

I hate either/or discussions. They never make any sense.

I have been really, severely ill. No confirmed test, but I'll eat my hat if it turned out to be "just a flu". I'm talking sick for the major part of a month and a half, too weak to even brush my hair, never mind taking a shower. Some days I couldn't even reach over to the side table to pick up my phone when it was ringing. Moving my arm 3 feet away was too much to ask.

I also have depression issues, and I live alone. I have no family in the area. I spend a lot of time hugging my dog, and texting my friends. Pesach is going to be very lonely this year.

Both stink, but I have to say that being sick was 100 times worse than just being alone. If I was desperate for company I could use FB video chat. I could walk my dog late at night, to get exercise. If you're sick, there's no escaping it.

amother

Orchid

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 3:41 pm

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

People die from stress all the time, even with therapy and medication.

notshanarishona

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 3:53 pm

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

People can definitely die from stress , high blood pressure/heart attacks are directly related .

amother

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 4:06 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I hate either/or discussions. They never make any sense.

I asked it this way because of the severity of both, and to bring to the forefront that it's not so simple. I do believe "which is worse" is either unanswerable or extremely subjective.
But ALL of it is extremely real.

Seeker, I respect your question "how can we help?", and I believe that's the next step once we realize that to some, the chances of the virus and all it brings would be "better" than the isolation. I hope all communities are already asking how can we help? And starting to implement what they can. I almost wonder the spread of depression and anxiety in isolation is almost as unstoppable as the virus.

As for all statistics posted: yes, the stats from Covid-19 are scary, and very real, and not to be taken lightly. But where are the stats from mental effects happening from everything now? You can't compare via stats with only one side of the story.

amother

Babypink

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:20 pm

I believe the need for isolation will be temporary as soon as we figure out a way to shore up the healthcare system and test enough ppl so we can target the ones most at risk.and gradually allow everyone else back to work.

In the meantime we need to work together to keep each other strong and support one another so we can defeat this virus together.

amother

Babypink

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:24 pm

Quote:

As for all statistics posted: yes, the stats from Covid-19 are scary, and very real, and not to be taken lightly. But where are the stats from mental effects happening from everything now? You can't compare via stats with only one side of the story.

How can you compare the stress and anxiety of isolation to the stress and anxiety of having a loved one clingiing to life in the ICU, never knowing if they'll make it? The stress of knowing that we don't have enough hospital beds and ventilators to treat all that are ill?

Nobody is denying the stress of isolation. We need to work together and support each other. But better some temporary stress for 6-8 weeks than lifelong sorrow.

doodlesmom

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:29 pm

It’s sad. I actually got forwarded videos of people jumping to their deaths so there is an obvious concern. If anyone feels on the verge...definitely go out of your house take a nice long walk call someone who can help....even take your family to another young family who is quarantined as a last resort.

If you have the virus, but with mild symptoms you can meet up with people in the same boat if it will help you mentally from breaking down.

amother

Plum

Tue, Mar 24 2020, 5:32 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

Without sanity there is no life.
For those of us with prior trauma this is a living hell
For those of us with special needs children...

I have a history of trauma and a special needs child. I think my brain may explode!!