Do you believe the conspiracy theories?

amother

Plum

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 10:28 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

If this is a biological attack, it was a stupid one. The global economy is just that, global. Even if China can make products by the billions right now, they don't have any Americans to buy them so it doesn't help their economy.
There are reports that China is trying to make a global power grab out of this by touting that they beat it, but I think pretty much every country sees right through that. Their numbers are extremely underreported to the point of being absurd and pretty much everyone is angry at their government that they didn't contain it faster.
If China or any other nation were to release a biological attack, you'd think it would be one that was deadly, but not super spreadable because if it is super transmittable, like Covid, then it would inevitable get back to their country.
I hate the Chinese government for a vast variety of reasons, but this being a biological attack just doesn't add it.
Now it's entirely possible that it was engineered in the Wuhan lab and someone walked out with it unintentionally.

Why would they be engineering the virus then?

amother

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 10:31 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

I think you'd need to be naive to believe that the government doesn't track people when it needs to.
I don't think the government is doing this to enforce martial law, but I think that certain governments will use this as a pretext to infringe on civil rights. In Hungry, Viktor Orban now has permission to rule by decree indefinitely due to the coronavirus. Less stable governments than ours will use the pandemic to make a power grab. If that happens in the US it remains to be seen but it won't shock me when we lose some of our civil rights in this pandemic and don't gain them back fully.

In sum, I don't think anyone intentionally let loose a pandemic on the world to gain power and take back civil rights. However, I think that once governments start tracking people like this, it would be easy for them to just not stop when this is over.
In the US, we have a strong libertarian streak so I think there would be a significant amount of protest before some form of martial law was imposed, but with people so scared about getting sick, who knows.

Thank you for this well thought out post.
Mandatory vaccination and surveillance terrifies me.
I'm not anti-vax. However, I believe that I have a right as a mother to decline certain vaccines and to decide how many at a time I want to put into my kids bodies.

amother

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 10:34 pm

amother [ Brunette ] wrote:

Hi, OP. I’ve been watching some videos about this too.
I neither believe nor disbelieve.
I don’t know enough about science, technology, politics and/or finance to have a strong opinion that any of this is true.
At the same time I distrust politicians, banks and big powerful CEOs, CDC and WHO and much more to believe that it could be, at least in part, true.
But since I can’t do anything about any of this and worrying makes me sick, I just try not to give it much thought.
B”H I know who really runs the world and my trust is in Him.

Yes, you are RIGHT!!!
Hashem is MORE POWERFUL than the FDA, the corrupt government and all wicked people who don't have our best intentions at heart.
Thanks for the reminder.

amother

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 10:37 pm

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

PSA: If you want to do a biological attack, don't choose a virus that is highly contagious and can spread out of control, especially if it can mutate so that vaccines are less effective.

Thank you. I just read this from my basement lab, and it actually made me change my plans.

amother

Peach

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 10:40 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I am about as pro-vax as it gets. However I am extremely anti-government involvement in any area of my life. But what amazes me is that the government suddenly has the ability to literally force everybody to stay inside but it doesn't have the ability to order mandatory vaccinations. And I have no doubt that that will come into the conversation when we start thinking and talking about things that don't start with C

amother

Peach

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 10:41 pm

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

Why would they be engineering the virus then?

Labs all over the world engineer viruses to do experiments on them etc. It's not crazy that they would have engineered a virus, its crazy that it would be able to escape from a lab.

I don't think thats what happened though, I think it originated in the wet markets, which should absolutely be shut down.

agreer

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 10:42 pm

I believe that it was made in China and got out of hand.

I also believe the Chinese are liars and murderers and we cannot trust them. They should be punished harshly, through economic sanctions.

We are realizing now that we do NOT need China - we couldn't get anything from them for the last 2 months, and now we are living with a lot less and making do. I think we should spend more on USA-made products and stop buying from China. If we buy less, we can afford more local goods.

amother

Peach

Thu, Apr 02 2020, 10:45 pm

agreer wrote:

I 100% agree. I think there should be very, very severe consequences. I would be happy to pay higher prices for goods not made in China if we can bring supply lines back to the US.

Fox

Fri, Apr 03 2020, 3:54 am

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

Now it's entirely possible that it was engineered in the Wuhan lab and someone walked out with it unintentionally.

This seems to me to be the most likely scenario. We know that labs in the Wuhan province were experimenting with intermediate horseshoe bats -- the species associated with Covid19. At the same time, some reports from China prior to the outbreak suggest that intermediate horseshoe bats have never been sold in the region's "wet markets."

The conspiracy, I believe, is less in the features of the virus and more in the ongoing cover-up by China and their manipulation of the WHO.

Twenty-five or thirty years ago, we all fell in love with the Ricardo's Law of Comparative Advantage -- the economic principle that if Americans can produce paper towels 10 percent better than the Chinese and plastic tablecloth covers 15 percent better than the Chinese, we should nevertheless specialize in tablecloth covers and let China make the paper towels.

We forgot that the Law of Comparative Advantage is an economic principle -- it doesn't account for things like safety, differences in values, differences in legal systems, etc.

And here we are.

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Apr 03 2020, 4:18 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

scary. Don't know why so many people are writing these theories though

Because idiots believe them, promote them, and spread them.

And the people behind the conspiracy theories get a kick out of that. They like it, they like the popularity, they sometimes gain personally from it. And, sometimes they believe their own trash and feel like they are saving the world.

When millions of people around the world believe your trash, that's a good feeling.

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Apr 03 2020, 4:20 am

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

I 100% agree. I think there should be very, very severe consequences. I would be happy to pay higher prices for goods not made in China if we can bring supply lines back to the US.

The biggest reason we haven't done this is that most people are NOT willing to pay higher prices. And it doesn't matter what's at stake.
(I'm with you. I commend you. I do the same.)

amother

Amber

Fri, Apr 03 2020, 5:01 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

The biggest reason we haven't done this is that most people are NOT willing to pay higher prices. And it doesn't matter what's at stake.
(I'm with you. I commend you. I do the same.)

If products didn't have planned obsolescence, I'd pay more to buy local. But since I'll just have to re-buy in X months/years, I can't afford to do that.

One main reason people buy brand-name products, at a premium, is the perceived or actual quality difference. If "Made in the USA" means long-lasting, consumers can be persuaded to purchase it.

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Apr 03 2020, 5:09 am

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

There's always some excuse for supporting a foreign economy while your own neighbors depend on welfare, while you kvetch about how many people depend on welfare.

Planned obsolescence is a problem, and you can legislate against it and penalize companies for it and allow people to reuse thrown-away parts and provide electronics for free or cheap,instead of companies being allowed to sue them for it.

Planned obsolescence is not an excuse for refusing to buy local.

I sincerely hope that this pandemic changes things and we start producing locally instead of importing. Even if that means we pay more for the goods. We'll be saving money down the line, because there will be more jobs and less poverty.

"Made in the USA" often does mean longer-lasting, by the way, but too many people don't care if a product lasts two years or five, three years or ten. And even those who do care, don't care about quality for every product, or don't care enough to pay more for it (we like to shop and buy new things, there'll be a better version in a few years, or a more fashionable product in a few months, that we'll want to buy regardless of how much we pay right now).