Halachik Psak for Tuition during School Closure

out-of-towner

Fri, May 08 2020, 10:32 am

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

I understand your viewpoint, but can I return the question to you? Do you really the parents are out to take advantage of the situation? So many are struggling financially right now and need to restructure their finances to stabilize their situation.

This isn't a one-sided struggle. Both the parents and the schools are struggling right now, and it isn't fair to just weigh the implications on only one end. There needs to be some sort of compromise and adjustments to account for the current situation.

This. And don't forget about the parents who are needed to work, but are unable to do so because they don't have childcare. Or even if they are able to get childcare, it's at the expense of tuition. At the end of the day for a two-income family, school is also childcare.

amother

Fri, May 08 2020, 10:35 am

amother [ Aquamarine ] wrote:

This thread is so disappointing. I’m coming from a school administration perspective. Do you really think the schools are out to make money on you? Where I live the schools put every penny they have to enhance your child’s education. No one is making any money. Yes the staff is getting paid their salaries but the higher ups? They go out there and fund raise and work tirelessly to be able to pay their bills without making a dime! They’re doing unpaid work for the sake of the klal! And of course they ask a psak Halacha on this matter! They are in chinuch and every single decision goes along with their daas Torah! You all make it sound like schools are greedy businessmen looking to make a buck on you.
We personally asked a psak what to do about tuition and were told the parents should be asked to pay full tuition but if a parent is going through a more difficult time financially now we should work with them. Which is what we always do anyways!

You must realize fundraising is down the drain right now- and that is where most of the school finances come from. Tuition does not cover the cost of your child’s education. The schools are struggling and will fall apart if theres no money.

This thread is very sad.

As I noted in the opening post, I am paying full tuition without asking because I believe in supporting the school.

However, why is it disappointing when a parent wants to know what halacha mandates of him at this time?

According to the letters some of the other posters showed me, while none state an unequivocal psak (I'm still looking for that), most state that clearly there is room to say that parents owe nothing or only partial payment at this time. This is a question of dinei mamonos, and it's not really a matter of emotion.

FYI, a close aquaintance of mine in a school administration is quite upset that his school is not asking any shailos and just charging full tuition. The school is mostly funded by tuition (as most parents are full payers) and they hardly rely on any fundraising - no dinner or other major campaigns. Furthermore, the school is receiving a lot of money from the Paycheck Protection Program to cover payroll (and they will not have to pay it back), so financially they are doing better than ever. His boss, however, doesn't understand that this is a halachic question, and is instructing him to keep up regular tuition collections.

Don't you think a parent deserves to know what halacha mandates him to pay at this time? Of course we hope and expect that a parent who is in the financial position to do so would continue to support the school as much as possible.

amother

Fri, May 08 2020, 10:44 am

amother [ Aquamarine ] wrote:

And by the way, I am hoping to pose this question to several poskim, as many people seem interested in the topic. I sat down last night to jot down several points explaining my question. My husband pointed out that if we're looking at pure halacha, the financial status of either party - I.e. parents struggling financially now, or schools struggling financially now - is not relevant to the psak. That is only relevant to psharah (compromise) or lifnim mishuras hadin.

I am absolutely a proponent of both parents and schools going lifnim mishuras hadin here. Parents should pay more than they owe (if the psak is that they only owe partial tuition) to help their struggling school. Schools should allow parents to pay less than they owe (whether the psak says they owe full or partial payment) if a parent is now unemployed or otherwise struggling financially.

But I am still looking for the actual psak.

(I hope to post the replies I receive after Shabbos.)

amother

Floralwhite

Fri, May 08 2020, 10:48 am

tichellady wrote:

This is not true. Trust me, my husband is on the covid task force for our community and there is a lot unknown about all of this. It is not clear what documentation and proof will be required to prove that a company gets to keep the money. Hopefully, you will be right.

The PPP explicitly states that one of the major requirements for the loan to be forgivable is to use it for payroll and not lay off anyone during the 3 months period.

Thereby these funds should be going towards payroll. Is it ethical that they try to hold us over with their claim about needing to pay the teachers right now, when the funds they were awarded are to go towards that? . After the time period has passed, then their claim would have validity. But right now it just rubs me the wrong way.

amother

Aquamarine

Fri, May 08 2020, 1:12 pm

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

I agree with you 100%. And I am a parent as well who is struggling to pay my own childrens tuitions while home schooling, working, and trying to keep my home a happy (clean!) place. The part that feels disappointing is that everyone assumes the schools aren’t asking a psak on this and the way ppl are making it sound like the schools are benefiting unfairly. Yes everyone is struggling both schools and parents alike. And that’s why we have rabbanim to help figure out this complicated situation.

And FYI not every school received the ppp funds and it is extremely unclear whether this is a loan which will need to be repaid or will be forgiven. There’s a lot of contradictions involved and no one knows.

amother

Orange

Fri, May 08 2020, 5:15 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Does anyone have a link to a psak from an established rav or beis din regarding tuition payment during school closure?

(Disclaimer: I have already paid full tuition for my kids for March, April and May, and I intend to do so for June.)

I would like to hear the actual halachic psak regarding the breach of contract on the part of both the parents and the school, irrespective of the parents' employment status or the school's desire to pay their teachers in full.

There is a dual breach of contract:

At the beginning of the school year, I signed a contract obligating me to pay $______ in return for my child's receiving instruction at School X from September through June, with a general schedule of 30 hours per week, with the exception of the vacation days noted on the school calendar. The school committed to providing the instruction as noted above, in return for $______.

Now, due to the mandated school closure, I am unable to send my child to receive instruction. Due to the mandated school closure, the school is unable to provide the instruction they had committed to providing. (My kids' school does provide a daily teleconference of about 45 minutes - my kids are lower elementary/Pre1A. This is not the kind of instruction indicated on the contract.) Which party is obligated to bear the financial fallout of this situation? If anyone has a clear and definitive psak, I would love to hear it.

*As an aside, I haven't received any indication from my children's school that they have brought this question to a posek for review. The school sent out a letter requesting that parents continue to pay tuition as usual, so that they can pay their teachers in full. Yet when I called the school administrator and asked if the school's payroll is being funded by the Payroll Protection program, he admitted that it is. I am quite confused as to why they sent out that misleading letter! In any case I believe it is important for our hardworking teachers to receive their full pay. However, the need to pay teachers, or a parent's sudden loss of a job, doesn't have any bearing on the actual psak regarding what each party's obligation is due to the dual breach of contract. Sure, I can be nice and pay more than I owe to help the school meet its budget. Sure, the school can be nice and let parents pay less than they owe because they just lost their jobs.

But the bottom line is, what do the parents actually owe, according to halacha?

Your schools are giving time every day to teach to the best of their ability considering the circumstances. So your “contract” states they’d teach them in person. Yeah we know. Do you think the contract should’ve stated, “in case of a potentially deadly pandemic, we will only teach online?”

amother

Sun, May 10 2020, 7:37 am

amother [ Aquamarine ] wrote:

The reason I am asking is because I am closely acquainted with administration of several schools - and I know for a fact that they are not asking. I spoke about this topic with the highest level of administration, and they said, "Why is it even a question? Anyway Torah Umesorah says parents should pay." Even if that is the morally correct position, I think schools should first find out what the basic halacha is obligating parents.

amother

Sun, May 10 2020, 7:40 am

Librarian wrote:

For all those of you looking for "an actual psak" there is a reason you can't find it. This is a Choshen Mishpat issue. These kinds of matters must be resolved by a rav dealing with BOTH parties, together. That is why you are getting "recommendations" and suggestions for compromise etc. A rav who gives an unequivocal "psak" with out hearing both sides is unethical and not following halacha. It seems from many of these posts that much of the friction is coming from a lack of open communication on both sides. Of course it behooves all parties to do their best, be mivater and magnanimous when possible. That is the 5th shulchan aruch.

To explain, I was looking for guidelines similar to the ones circulating regarding playgroups and babysitters. Because the basic halacha is complicated here, those guidelines discuss the basic halacha, why it is complicated, and what parents should actually do. I would like to see guidelines of this sort for tuition, that's all.

amother

Sun, May 10 2020, 7:44 am

Librarian wrote:

Just out of curiosity - if you are continuing to pay anyway, why do you need a halachik psak? You would only get an actual binding psak if both parties consulted the rav together. Why would you do that if you are paying anyway?

As a frum Jew, am I not allowed to inquire what halacha states regarding a topic that is being highly debated right now?

I am continuing to pay full because I want to support my children's school, and because when it comes to matters of money, my husband and I always try to go lifnim mishuras hadin, so that we shouldn't chas veshalom come to take even one dollar that isn't ours. B"h we are in the financial position to do so. (Does that make me morally superior? Maybe. Smile

) But I have many friends and relatives who are struggling, and they are interested in seeing halachic guidelines for this question. So I figured Imamother is a popular frum forum and is a great place to ask if anyone has seen any.

amother

Sun, May 10 2020, 7:49 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

I'm not looking to blame schools, and I'm not asking the question out of any kind of emotion. As Jews, there are halachos that tell us how to behave when one or both parties to a contract can't provide the promised service/payment due to unforeseen circumstances. Leaving emotion aside - I know schools are doing their best and this situation isn't their fault - what does halacha say in this case?

(As I posted a moment ago, I already asked this question and I have my answer. But I wish everyone could leave emotion aside and realize that we need to live by halacha.)

amother

Sun, May 10 2020, 8:02 am

So I finally spoke to three poskim (2 in NY, 1 in NJ) to pose the question that I voiced in the first post on this thread.

Spoiler: I did not get an unequivocal psak, nor did I hear detailed guidelines similar to the ones that many communities sent out regarding paying babysitters and playgroup Morahs, which was what I was expecting.

Here's why:
(The following is the long answer for those interested. For the short answer, see the portion in bold below.)

GUIDELINES FOR PAYMENT FOR CHILDCARE:

Contracting with a provider for childcare, be it a babysitter, private Morah or daycare center, would all fall under the category of contracting for a service. Since these three scenarios are slightly different, the guidelines for payment during this time are slightly different for each. (The first two scenarios involve the parent contracting the worker directly, the first for an hourly wage, the second for a monthly salary. When contracting with a daycare center, the parent is not contracting the worker directly.)Nevertheless, they are all based on the following principles:

The providers are unable to provide the service due to a "makas milchamah" - an unforeseen circumstance whose effect is widespread. In the case of a makas milchamah, there is no consensus in the poskim regarding which party is to bear the financial fallout of the circumstances. Because there is no consensus, we cannot mandate the muchzak - the party who is in possession of the money now - to give it to the other party. (I.e. the parent cannot be forced to give the payment to the provider). However, as the halacha is not clearly on the side of either party, it is most recommended to come to some kind of pesharah (compromise) between the two parties. If the Morah is providing the option of remote learning, that should be factored in to the compromise. If either or both parties would like to go lifnim mishuras hadin - beyond the letter of the law - and forgo all or part of the disputed money, that is commendable as well.

TUITION PAYMENT:

When it comes to the status of tuition payments to a school, there are two schools of thought:

1) Some are of the opinion that schools are categorized as a service-based business, and the parents are contracting with the school to provide educational services in exchange for an annual fee. The halachos would be the same as those for childcare providers (I.e. there is no consensus as to which party must bear the financial fallout) and therefore the guidelines would be similar.

2) Some are of the opinion that schools are not categorized as service-based businesses, but rather as community institutions dedicated to our children's chinuch. When a parent registers a child at a school, he must pledge X amount in support of the institution (we refer to this pledge as tuition) - and it is NOT in exchange for any specific service. Therefore, the halting of, or reduction in, educational services has no bearing on the parent's obligation to fulfill his pledge to support the school.

Because the poskim are not sure how to categorize the status of tuition payments to schools, there will likely be no halachic psak rendered anytime soon.

I spoke to three poskim. One out of the three (a well-known posek in Brooklyn) was of the second opinion - namely, that parents don't pay tuition for a service, but rather in support of the institution, and therefore must keep up their payments. The other two poskim did not tell me which opinion they sided with. (One of the poskim, who lives in Lakewood, did mention that his beis din had been working on a set of guidelines similar to the childcare ones, but it is proving too complicated - he didn't say why, so they will not put out any guidelines and parents are encouraged to just continue payments as usual.)

I got my answer, ladies. There will be no clear-cut psak. I will carry on with my regular payments (which was my plan regardless) and make my peace with the fact that there are some gray areas in life. Good luck to all of you!