Where do I go from here? Heartbroken from DD

amother

Mon, May 11 2020, 12:27 am

I'm so broken. I don't know what to do with my 13 YO. She's the oldest and has always been a strong personality, but since corona her clashes with me have gone through the roof. She's become violent, shockingly verbally abusive, and constantly turns the other kids who are old enough to listen to her against me. My preschooler she tries to brainwash by telling him that Mommy doesn't love him and wants to hurt him.

She wants to run the house and can't handle the fact that I'm the actual mother. I am home all day with the kids while DH is out, and any time I tell them what to do she ignores, fights, screams or refuses. It doesn't make a difference whether I'm talking to her or the other kids. She will physically get between me and the other kids, in my face, and scream at me and not let me deal with them.

She's violently attacked me a few times. She is bigger than me, and can be scary. If I try to take away toys or privileges, she gets verbally abusive and/or physical as well. She tells me all day that I'm abusive and crazy. Then when DH comes home she complains to him that Mommy is crazy and didn't let X Y and Z. No matter what I tell him, he takes her side and tells her "yes, Mommy is wrong, but you shouldn't talk back anyway because you're just adding fuel to the fire, you be a tzadeikes even if Mommy is immature, wrong and crazy." He is a total pushover with the kids and they love him because he never, ever tells them what to do or gives them any consequences for bad behavior. And he will tell me in front of them that I am wrong and should not tell them what to do and I'm not allowed to take anything from them.

I've told him time and again that he needs to back me up. He refuses. I've told him if he's out all day, he needs to allow me to direct the kids. They literally answer me back all day "I don't have to listen to you and Abba said so." He has told them according to the Torah, they don't have to listen to their mother, only their father.

I'm so so so fed up. I'm under siege in my own home. I am trying to parent in an impossible situation.

Just some of the delightful gems I heard from this child today: 1. she wants to kill me 2. I should come near the window so she can throw me out 3. I'm a pig (when I took a piece of food on my plate for supper) 4. she's calling the police because I "stole" her camera (which she then faked doing)

I am so at a loss. I never thought I would have to deal with something like this. My kids were always basically good kids, even if they had their moments now and then.

148

amother

Lime

Mon, May 11 2020, 1:10 am

You need to speak to your husband first, in privacy, not in front of the children. You need to have a real conversation about why he is fostering such behavior, what his expects of you are, what his expectations of the children are, and you together need to come up with a plan as to how to implement.
I of course have no idea what is going on in your home and why your husband is siding with the children the way he is. This conversation may be to humor him and point out how unrealistic his expectations and vision is or it may be a productive conversation to get you on the same page, or it may be that you could benefit from his approach. I really don't know.
Furthermore, I do think that a professional therapist may be in order. For you, for DH, for DD, and maybe group/family.
Nobody should be abused or a tyrant. Learning skills and gaining understanding may be advantageous all around.

Sending love and Wishing you hatzlacha.

amother

Peach

Mon, May 11 2020, 1:17 am

I am sorry for your experience and your broken heart. That is very very tough for any parent to take. But that said you might not like my opinion or what I suggest.

Something is very broken in your family and it sounds much larger than the details you give here. And its not your 13 yo. She is a symptom, not the source. Its got to be something with the dynamic of you and your dh. This is my opinion.

I dont think a 13 yo is verbally abusive. She spoke 100% not acceptable or desirable manner. I think 13yo who speak so disrespectfully are in a home where they witness a very broken family dynamic. I take issue with you coming across as the innocent bystanding victim of the evilly labeled barely out of childhood preteen.

You and your husband need to go for joint help asap. Your parenting MUST get in sync fast. Both of you must learn how to implement together that its unacceptable for any child to speak to either parent that way. Speak their heart yes, in that manner, never.

I could be totally wrong but then it would mean your dd might be suffering from extreme mental health issues. So I would check the parenting first. That is a much easier road to correct.

amother

Lilac

Mon, May 11 2020, 1:18 am

ugh

I hear you. I can tell you this can pass, but you gotta stand strong to your dd and dh and the rest. You be the 1 to tell her you cant talk to me like that, But in a calm nonchalant voice, I know it's nearly impossible but it's the only way to go. Understand thats shes may be hormonal now or confused and she needs you more than both of ymay realize. u totally should stand up to dh just the same, you are not a rag! Tell him, out of kids earshot, that he better listen to you closely, this can't go on this way. You both have to be a team. Your kids dont want to see you on different sides. This may surprise you but despite her lovely comments, your dd still loves you even though she somehow hasn't figured out how to show it. You should explain this to dh too, when he puts you down hes not her favorite, hes actually adding fuel to dds fire, there's nothing in the world a kid wants more than her parents should love each other. Hashem should give you the strength to carry on during this difficult stage.

amother

Cerulean

Mon, May 11 2020, 1:22 am

To echo what previous posters have said, the primary issue is NOT dd. It is DH.

Although her behavior is not acceptable, some of the attitude is unfortunately normal teenage stuff. (I got some of the same gems from my DS11, although not all day.) That it is going to such an extent is directly attributable to the mixed messages and lack of boundaries she is given.

Of course you should love her and let her know you love her unconditionally.

But if you want something to change, you really need to work together with DH to provide a safer and more consistent environment in your home. You may not be able to do this alone.

Wishing you hatzlacha, OP, it will be a long hard slog but you can do this.

Zehava

Mon, May 11 2020, 1:36 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thank you.

It's a never ending story with DH. He doesn't agree that kids should be parented with any sort of discipline, and won't change his mind no matter how often I hash it out with him in private, so I am daily left holding the bag.

They don't listen to him either, by the way. But he rarely tells them anything, and when he does and they don't listen, he just lets it go.

If I were you I’d let it go as well
No it’s not ideal, but it’s the lesser of the two evils.
I’d also make it clear to him that it’s completely unacceptable to badmouth you to the kids. Completely. It will damage them for life. If he doesn’t get that then your problems are bigger than this.

seeker

Mon, May 11 2020, 1:42 am

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

I also want to point out that aside from the terrible parenting, your dh is abusive. "He has told them according to the Torah, they don't have to listen to their mother, only their father." He validates them calling you names.

Please call Shalom Task Force for guidance.

Surprised no one else picked this up, I was screaming at the computer when I read this! The Torah SPECIFICALLY, EXPLICITLY names both father and mother to be honored, in the ten commandments which everyone including non-Jews knows. How the heck does he come off trying to say such things? How manipulative must this DH be if he can manage to sell such BS to his family?

My heart goes out to OP. I hope you can find professional help, nothing anyone says here is going to be enough. Shalom Task Force could be a good resource.

amother

Mon, May 11 2020, 1:42 am

Zehava wrote:

I can't really let it go unless I want the home descending into utter chaos either way. We're talking about things like 9 year old jumping on top of 3 year old and bullying him, kids never doing their homework unless I prompt them, acting wild and hurting each other, never going to bed and acting wild literally all night long unless I do something about it...things that need to be corrected.

The funny thing is they refuse to listen, taking their cue from 13 YO DD, but then when there's a fight or they don't like something the other one is doing, they're yelling for me right away to stop their sibling.

amother

Cerulean

Mon, May 11 2020, 1:46 am

In that case, OP, where I'd go from here is to a therapist for myself, to learn how to enforce boundaries in my parenting and/or my marriage.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that DH is abusive, because I don't know, but he is definitely making things worse here. With the right guidance, I believe that you can change the atmosphere in your home.

Starting with getting a Rav on speakerphone to tell the kids that Kibud Av Va'eim is for the mother and the father. And then laying down the law on it. The kids will fight it at first because they won't trust your new boundary to be firm, but they will be grateful when you stick to it.

Kids NEED boundaries. They do not function well in a totally permissive environment. Right now DH is undermining any boundaries you set, and you will need to learn how to keep them strong despite him.

amother

Mauve

Mon, May 11 2020, 1:52 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The problem is they all see it as the opposite because he acts like Mr Nice Guy, and therefore I must be the abusive one. I end up feeling like I'm going crazy Crying

Of course you feel like you're going crazy. Most abusers don't have evil grins and wear black capes. They often are terribly charming. Often, they make you feel like you're losing it.

It makes perfect sense that you're feeling lost. That you're feeling crazy. Thos are normal reactions to what's going on.

You don't need to figure this out by yourself. There are experts that can guide you. Please, please, call Shalom Task Force. Or call Lisa Twerski, author of "I'm so Confused, am I being Abused"

amother

Mon, May 11 2020, 1:53 am

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

I'm in therapy but I guess these things come up between sessions. I love your idea about getting a Rav on speakerphone, thanks!

amother

Mauve

Mon, May 11 2020, 1:54 am

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

Seriously?! Her dd violently attacks her and dad says things like, "you be a tzadeikes even if Mommy is immature, wrong and crazy."

He is ABUSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, and he flat out lies that children dont need to respect mothers, only fathers.

amother

Mon, May 11 2020, 2:03 am

To clarify, he does it a little more suavely than telling them straight out the Torah says you don't have to listen to your mother. He tells them that the halacha is that if a mother tells them something the father can overrule it. Then he constantly tells them they don't have to listen to me when he's around and I tell them something. So when he's not home, they say "I don't have to listen to you because Abba lets me do X" or "says I don't have to do Y" or"the phone/house/etc belongs to Abba so you can't tell me what to do." (Not that it matters, but we both work and I actually bring in more income than him so that's not even true, but even if it weren't that way, it's still unacceptable)