Where do I go from here? Heartbroken from DD

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Parenting our children

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother

Khaki

Mon, May 11 2020, 10:35 am

banana123 wrote:

I remember that thread too. At first I thought OP was that poster.

It doesn’t matter.
Unless one parent is mentally unstable, diagnosed by a professional, parents always have to back up each other in front of the kids and take care of their differences elsewhere out of the kids eyes and ears.
This is not even remotely ok in any way.
Unless OP is mentally unstable diagnosed by a professional and the husband needs to protect his kids. Which I highly doubt because in such a case he wouldn’t leave the kids alone in her care all day.

Ora in town

Mon, May 11 2020, 10:38 am

Looks like the parents leave a power vacuum in this family, that the oldest daughter feels compelled to fill that vacuum, and that it goes downhill from there.
You would need a systemic family therapist who helps everyone to find and hold their rightful place in the family...
The oldest daughter is not the mother, but how did she get the idea that she is? Does she have to serve dinner in the evening because no-one is home? Does she have to do homework with the small ones because nobody cares? Does she have to clean the house because she would be ashamed to bring friends over if she didn't?

To a certain degree, power struggles between teenagers and their parents are part of growing up... Parents have to be strong...

Last edited by Ora in town on Mon, May 11 2020, 10:40 am; edited 3 times in total

thunderstorm

Mon, May 11 2020, 10:38 am

CiCi wrote:

That's what I'm trying to say. The husband may be reactive, it's not the right way to deal with this situation, but it doesn't automatically make him the only source of the problem.

The fact that he said that one who is respected is one who respects others is a big clue for me that it may not only be an issue with the husband here. And I stress the word "MAY". I am not sure that we have the full story here.

Nobody is saying that the DH is the only problem. There can be two abusive people in a situation too. OP may be the reactive one and she may verbally lash out with anger. We are not there. That still doesn’t negate the fact that the things he said to her were emotionally abusive. This family as a whole needs help. And the OP needs to be open with her therapist about what REALLY goes on at home.

Last edited by thunderstorm on Mon, May 11 2020, 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total

banana123

Mon, May 11 2020, 10:39 am

amother [ Khaki ] wrote:

I agree that it's note remotely okay in any way. I'm just not sure what the source of the problem is.

What's clear is that the daughter needs help ASAP and the parents need help ASAP, because this is not a tenable situation.

#BestBubby

Mon, May 11 2020, 10:39 am

amother [ Khaki ] wrote:

The Core of the problem is your husband.
And if he’ll call a Rav he’ll find out he’s WRONG.
1. The kids must respect you.
2. So does he.

You are correct that DH is the problem.

But neither a Rav or Therapist can fix such a sociopath abuser. Parental Alienators are the worst. Get recordings and get away (divorce) as fast as possible. Don't try to fix the abuser.
The more time they have with kids, they may turn the kids against you and it will be too late
to repair, ch"v.

chanchy123

Mon, May 11 2020, 10:46 am

thunderstorm wrote:

Nobody is saying that the DH is the only problem. There can be two abusive people in a situation too. OP may be the reactive one and she may verbally lash out with anger. We are not there. That still doesn’t negate the fact that the things he said to her were not emotionally abusive. This family as a whole needs help. And the OP needs to be open with her therapist about what REALLY goes on at home.

THIS

Mamushka

Mon, May 11 2020, 10:46 am

Please get help in real life!!!!!
It's the one and only advice you can get here.

behappy2

Mon, May 11 2020, 11:00 am

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

There’s definitely a bigger issue here. A short term solution could be declaring you’re going away for a few days and he’s staying home with the kids. See if his attitude changes when he’s in charge of them for a bit. Your daughter is picking up the attitude from him, so it’s his attitude that needs to be changed. You are not their servant and maid to boss around and abuse.

He could use that time to have them all gang up against you. Really bad idea unless you need the break.

amother

Firebrick

Mon, May 11 2020, 11:23 am

Ora in town wrote:

You're psychoanalyzing the dd's feelings when we haven't been given enough information to be able to do that. We don't know if dd is expected to do any chores, let alone that she is feeling resentful for being given too many.

What OP has described is nothing remotely like a typical teenage power struggle.

Laiya

Mon, May 11 2020, 11:32 am

Op, this is such a difficult situation. What jumped out at me was,

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My preschooler she tries to brainwash by telling him that Mommy doesn't love him and wants to hurt him.

This is so cruelly manipulative. That a 13 yo would do this to a preschool-age sibling is deeply disturbing and raises so many red flags.

OP, it's not a question of how long you can put up with this situation. All of your children are being harmed every moment that the situation continues. It might not feel like an emergency because you've gotten used to it, but it is. Please, please seek help as soon as possible.

amother

Mon, May 11 2020, 12:15 pm

Thanks for all your replies. I wish I could respond to each post. I'm sneaking in a post here in between everything else I have to do.

I called the Rav this morning with DH and DCs present, so thank you to everyone who encouraged me to do so. The Rav confirmed that the situation is inexcusable and he is familiar with DH's issues (which I didn't realize, and it was so good to hear that!) He told me I'm 100% in the right in terms of halacha and chinuch, which I desperately needed to hear because my confidence is slowly being eroded... I couldn't put him on speaker phone because oldest DD was screaming in the background the entire time, with no shame, that I'm a liar and an abuser and crazy. But they all heard my end of the conversation. He mentioned he is aware that my DH doesn't listen to rabbonim so he doesn't think it will be helpful for him to talk to him. He gave me a short term suggestion to try and tiptoe around everyone but admitted it will be counterproductive long term. He said he will try to help think of a long term solution for me, but he's not a professional, and he will try to help me find the right professional to help DD (as I mentioned I am already in therapy.) Very balanced, very secheldik, and he fully commiserated with my situation and told me it's not acceptable in any way.

He also gave me some possible insight as to where my DH's issues are stemming from (certain aspects of his upbringing) and I was so surprised and validated because it was something I always think but always wondered if I'm crazy for thinking it because his family is extremely well respected. This Rav, whom I've never discussed this with before, hit the nail exactly on the head.

In general, it was a phone call that put me squarely back in the feeling of sanity and I'm so so glad I made it.

seeker

Mon, May 11 2020, 12:16 pm

amother [ Khaki ] wrote:

איזהו מכובד המכבד את הבריות
.Refers to regular people in the street.
That those who are respectful are respected.
But a man has to respect his wife. He literally promised that in the kesuba.
And a child must respect his mother, it’s literally a mitzvas ase דאורייתא.
I’m glad he cares what the Torah says, but he just doesn’t know what it says.

Even you are perverting the meaning of the mishna. It is not saying that you only need to respect someone who respects others; it's saying that a person who respects others naturally earns respect.

Eta: but yes a man certainly has an added obligation to his wife.

Last edited by seeker on Mon, May 11 2020, 12:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

thunderstorm

Mon, May 11 2020, 12:19 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I’m so happy to hear that you got the validation and you are able to realize that it’s not YOU who is insane. May you continue having Hatzlacha with this.

amother

Khaki

Mon, May 11 2020, 12:38 pm

seeker wrote:

Correct.
But of course, I never said that you need to respect only someone who respects others. I Just explained that it’s not in the context of marriage but a general definition and explanation of people who elicit respect.

amother

Khaki

Mon, May 11 2020, 12:40 pm

I’m so glad you reached out to a Rav, OP.
Specifically in your situation it’s extremely important to be very connected to a Rav and a therapist.
Please stay connected!
Hugs!

studying_torah

Mon, May 11 2020, 2:01 pm

I didn't read the whole thread but op I would seriously get cameras and video these interactions with your dd as well as your dh.
You might need them for your protection if someone gets involved.

amother

Smokey

Mon, May 11 2020, 2:06 pm

My ex is an emotionally abusive and a cunning covert narcissist and I dealt with his trying to alienate ds for years before the divorce.

Below is some of what I did in case it could help you in any way. BTW currently ds is 12 and I have a very close relationship with him despite all, although he definitely sees me more like a friend and not with the high god-like respect he thinks of his father. With all this, unfortunately ds is still quite confused and is a challenge each and every day.

1) I took and still take 30 minute walks with him every day. I think this is the single most important and helps the most. That positive one on one attention without xh around and outside the toxic home proved very effective. During these walks I tried to talk of subjects ds enjoys.

2) I focused ONLY on the positive of him. Before the divorce when he had his father's influence all the time and anyways whatever I asked my son to do (ex: bedtime is 9:00, coat must be hung in the closet right away when he comes home, put away his dishes after a meal, make his bed etc), xh used to make sure ds doesn't do any of it ( "let me show you some interesting videos", when it's 9:00 and I just announced bedtime). But all this while saying "mom is an amazing mother, I myself just have issues with her.."

So I literally couldn't teach ds basics. I remember crying to my therapist WHO SPECIALIZES IN ABUSE and narcissists (very important!) "what will be with ds?? BTW, bH after the divorce I started training ds the pure basics of mentchlichkeit. He still has a long road to go.

3) I showed him TONS of love. When he hit me, which usually comes along with "I hate you", I said "I don't care, I LOVE you anyways and I always will, no matter what" and I told him HOW much I love him etc.

In short, I swallowed down a lot. Because I saw my son as a helpless terribly confused child who doesn't have the capacity to give of himself. He's constantly on a battlefield in emergency mode and I knew he can not absorb my teachings.

I did sometimes, very rarely have to put down my foot. Ex: ds wanted unnecessary lights on for Shabbos which was an absolute no no for me because I was the only breadwinner and couldn't afford to pay extra. For that, I was very strict and literally held my son physically to avoid him to reach the light switches after I lighted shabbos candles while xh was standing right there and silently smiling at my son as in "wink, turn it on".. later I explained to him how it costs extra money and then I won't be able to get him fun things etc, thus got him to understand that my being harsh to him will in the end only benefit him.

4) any strictness which I rarely utilized, only in near emergencies, was done in a way that ds was made to understand that it's for his own good.

I'm happy to hear that you have a rav on your side. That's major. I'm still looking for a rav who understands COVERT narcissists to help my son. To explain to him what a mother is. That she's not a piece of garbage. I didn't find one.

Again, saying all this in case it could help in any way.

amother

Cerise

Mon, May 11 2020, 5:21 pm

OP, if you were in divorce court, the judge would consider what your DH is doing as "parental alienation", and it would be a very severe problem.

It's every bit as big a problem here.

I have to wonder, why are you still with this guy, if he's programming your kids to act this way? You would all be much better without him. Let him have his tantrums in front of a judge, and see how far that gets him.

amother

Peach

Mon, May 11 2020, 6:32 pm

Being right wont fix anything. I am glad validation helped you emotionally but I dont understand why you would call a rav in front of dh & dc. It doesnt make any sense to me. What advice did the rav give you to help the situation that you can do now? Just chill and find therapy?

amother

Mon, May 11 2020, 10:54 pm

naomi2 wrote:

Op said she has a therapist. I'm not sure why she is coming to imamother to present her side and garner sympathy.
What is clear is that this family needs help in all their relationships and being home all day is exacerbating the issues.

I just want to take a minute to address this post. Having a therapist doesn't mean you have access to a constant stream of validation and affirmation. There are weekly sessions, that never seem to be long enough, in which you discuss the situation and maybe if there's time try to figure out what steps if any can be taken. Or it could be the therapist working with me to encourage me to stand up for myself. But a lot of things go on in my life every week, and like I said, it's less than an hour a week. I don't have anyone else to vent to about the situation, and this thread has been so so validating and strengthening for me in a time when I feel very alone and marginalized.

I see this misconception on threads here a lot. Just because an amother has a therapist, doesn't mean that Imamother can't provide valuable emotional support to fill in the gaps, especially when there's a situation that consumes so much mental and emotional energy and you can't stop thinking about it but there's no one you can really talk to about it on a daily basis.

Page 4 of 7

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next