Science and Torah | Imamother

malki2

Fri, Jun 05 2020, 5:17 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

Rambam in Moreh Nevuchim, page 211:

Quote:

First, the account given in Scripture of the Creation is not, as is generally believed, intended to be in all its parts literal.

Quote:

We have thus clearly stated and explained our opinion, that we agree with Aristotle in one half of his theory*. For we believe that this Universe remains perpetually with the same properties with which the Creator has endowed it, and that none of these will ever be changed except by way of miracle in some individual instances, although the Creator has the power to change the whole Universe, to annihilate it, or to remove any of its properties.

* The Rambam disagrees with Aristotle’s belief that the universe is constant, with no beginning or end.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/j.....6.htm

So now you will tell me that the Rambam would believe in Evolution.

bigsis144

Fri, Jun 05 2020, 5:38 pm

malki2 wrote:

So now you will tell me that the Rambam would believe in Evolution.

The Rambam was a strict Aristotelian, but science had not differentiated from philosophy back then. I honestly don't know what he would make of the scientific method and the conclusions drawn using that method. He seemed willing to listen to the "experts" of his day and follow their trains of logic*, as well as take the words of the Torah allegorically.

* Because no matter how "ridiculous" or "silly" you say this "leap of faith" is, the overwhelming majority of scientists use the framework that evolutionary theory posits to continue doing research in embryology, genetics, classification, medicine, paleontology, etc.

Last edited by bigsis144 on Fri, Jun 05 2020, 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

malki2

Fri, Jun 05 2020, 5:46 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

As someone said earlier. Yep.

amother

Apricot

Fri, Jun 05 2020, 5:56 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

Evolution was first proposed as a theory long before there was any evidence at all. So it's not as if scientists examined the evidence and were forced to come to the conclusion of evolution, it was completely the other way around. It was - we like this theory now let's find the evidence to prove it. As you know, this is far from being a true scientific method, but that's how it was done in this case.

The theory of evolution has actually "evolved" over the years, so it would be interesting to know which particular theory you think the evidence supports.

I don't think believing in evolution is silly and of course there are many highly intelligent people who are on that side, but I do agree with malki2 that this is a religion like any other, as it requires many great leaps of belief.

that sounds like the scientific method to me.

malki2

Fri, Jun 05 2020, 6:25 pm

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

that sounds like the scientific method to me.

Sounds like? You said that you’re not even very familiar with the theory. Yet you drop your fealty to the Torah because it sounds scientific to you.

amother

Apricot

Fri, Jun 05 2020, 6:42 pm

malki2 wrote:

Sounds like? You said that you’re not even very familiar with the theory. Yet you drop your fealty to the Torah because it sounds scientific to you.

In what post did I drop my fealty to the Torah??

I'm quiet familiar with the scientific method.

I'm not all that versed in evolution, actually about zero. I don't particularly care to be.

malki2

Fri, Jun 05 2020, 6:46 pm

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

In what post did I drop my fealty to the Torah??

I'm quiet familiar with the scientific method.

I'm not all that versed in evolution, actually about zero. I don't particularly care to be.

If you are not versed in evolution then why in the world do you believe in it?

amother

Apricot

Fri, Jun 05 2020, 6:48 pm

malki2 wrote:

If you are not versed in evolution then why in the world do you believe in it?

I don't use the word "believe" to talk about science.... so I'm fairly certain I never said anything of the sort.

malki2

Fri, Jun 05 2020, 7:05 pm

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

I don't use the word "believe" to talk about science.... so I'm fairly certain I never said anything of the sort.

I think you are playing games, but I’ll ask you: You weren’t around to see what happened. So do you believe that living organisms evolved or do you believe that they were created in fully-developed form by Hashem?

amother

Apricot

Fri, Jun 05 2020, 7:11 pm

malki2 wrote:

I'm not playing games. Your putting words in my mouth.

I believe Bereishis Barah Hashem et Hashamoyim v'et HaAretez... and all that follows from that.

I don't think about the details.

gut Shabbes.

malki2

Fri, Jun 05 2020, 7:46 pm

amother [ Apricot ] wrote:

I'm not playing games. Your putting words in my mouth.

I believe Bereishis Barah Hashem et Hashamoyim v'et HaAretez... and all that follows from that.

I don't think about the details.

gut Shabbes.

Git Shabbes.
[Personal attack removed and thread locked by mod.]