Do very unattractive people know they’re very unattractive?

Simple1

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 5:50 am

Success10 wrote:

Uch, stop all the fluffy, new age, feel good talk. Some people are, in fact, UGLY. Hashem's creations are varied, and there's nothing wrong with admitting the reality.

The concept of tzelem elokim is not new age.

Success10

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 6:06 am

Simple1 wrote:

The concept of tzelem elokim is not new age.

Can physically unattractive people not be b'tzelem Elokim? Or are you saying by virtue of the fact that they are Btzelem Elokim, they can't be unattractive? I don't understand why we can't all have our strong points and weak points. We can't all sing well, we aren't all great at math, not everyone is even smart or deep. That's ok. We need to accept our shortfalls.

But people here are posting "if you view her as ugly, you must be ugly yourself". I'm not saying the OP made the nicest post, but I'm not really understanding a lot of people's replies here either.

Simple1

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 6:12 am

Success10 wrote:

It's one thing to say someone's not particularly attractive. It's a whole other thing to call them ugly.

Success10

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 6:18 am

Simple1 wrote:

It's one thing to say someone's not particularly attractive. It's a whole other thing to call them ugly.

You're right, it's extreme. But what has that got to do with Tzelem Elokim? If we were only looking at that, all people would be equally beautiful.

The fact is that physical looks exist, and beauty is described extensively in the Torah. I feel like this thread was giving a lot of "real beauty is on the inside" vibes. On a spiritual level, that is of course true. But no one can see your soul on Instagram.

Simple1

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 6:28 am

Success10 wrote:

Your last line may be true. Which might be the issue. Could be the person OP describes is not photogenic (or poor lighting and camera angles). But I would bet that person is more attractive in real life. IRL, I don't believe people are ugly unless their insides are. And I'm really not saying this to be fluffy. I really feel that way. There is actually a concept of a face being called panim because it reflects the inside of a person.

And even if she's not photogenic to you, who cares? Unfollow.

Success10

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 6:34 am

Simple1 wrote:

That's really nice that you view people that way. I do understand that a person's face is more than just some weaving talent or some other superficial quality. It's meant to be a reflection of something deeper, so people are very offended by the use of the word "ugly". I didn't mean any offense with my comment. I doubt OP did either.

lovelymother

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 7:10 am

As if she went to the grocery store and choose her beauty there ...
Even if she knows or not she better stay this healthy way and certainly not punish herself for that but be comfortable with all Hashem blessed her .
I know women that not always satisfied with what they see in the mirror although many times they got compliments.
bad feeling - not recommended at all !!!

amother

Lavender

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 7:24 am

I’ll answer you, OP, since most people aren’t addressing your question directly. I’m guessing many people might say I’m not conventionally pretty and might feel sorry for me due to the looks I was given. Okay, so now what? Does that mean I should feel ashamed of myself and hide under a rock my whole life? I’m not the one who made me. Hashem gave me this challenge, so obviously it was the best thing for me. I’m bH married to a husband who loves me, I have kids who can be stinkers but overall bH we have a warm and loving relationship, I’m healthy and I’m alive and I get to do mitzvos all day long. So I’m happy. I don’t spend my day thinking about how ugly I am and plotting ways to look better. I can’t change the features I was given, so why put energy into trying? If I were the type to use social media, sure I would post pictures of myself if I got a new shaitel or something, why not? Other people do it, why shouldn’t I?

chanatron1000

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 8:05 am

If the standard definition of "ugly" is external, "real beauty is on the inside" is offensive, because it attributes more value to beauty while trying to redefine it.

amother

Blonde

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 8:10 am

I didn’t read the thread but had to be sure there was a comment here to you that you may think she’s “ugly” but that doesn’t mean she is. There’s a southern saying “you’re being ugly” referring to how a person acts and speaks not their looks. Actions make a person seem ugly and so does jealousy.

Lavender is correct. I’m considered pretty. Who cares? I’m still a person that’s striving and has struggles.

amother

Plum

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 10:35 am

I wonder if I'm ugly or if other people see me like that. How would I know?
This is a very sore point because I grew up with a personality-disordered mother who was hyper-focused on my looks and would pick my features apart. Now I always feel ugly even though time and again I've been told that I'm pretty.

malki2

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 11:10 am

giselle wrote:

I’ve always wondered something similar - do tactless people know they’re tactless?

Or, do people who are ugly on the inside know that they are ugly on the inside?

amother

Blonde

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 11:20 am

malki2 wrote:

Or, do people who are ugly on the inside know that they are ugly on the inside?

This is the “being ugly” I posted about.

amother

Ecru

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 11:20 am

It's like when people say that someone who they don't think is pretty "has chein" as a way of saying it nicely.
Isn't chein said to be on the faces of those with a high level of closeness to Hashem? Why is that the definition of an "ugly" person?

This whole world is backwards. Rolling Eyes

giselle

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 11:24 am

amother [ Ecru ] wrote:

That’s funny, I’ve only heard that term being used about beautiful people.

BH Yom Yom

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 11:26 am

Beauty is subjective... I remember dating a guy who other people told me was “SOOO good looking!” Honestly I was not attracted to him and thought he was not particularly nice looking. Different people can find different looks attractive or unattractive.

amother

Forestgreen

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 11:26 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I don’t mean to be mean but there’s a woman I know of who goes on Facebook and keeps putting up selfies of herself and she really is very very homely and I’m just thinking, doesn’t she see what other people see? This isn’t a case of everybody having different taste, this is someone who’s really scary ugly. But she puts up pics look I dyed my own hair look this is me with my new baseball cap on. So do ugly people really not know they’re ugly?

I beg to differ.

aliavi

Sun, Jun 07 2020, 11:27 am

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

I’m so sorry! Her issue with your looks was really her issue not yours. I can relate to your experience. You can be your worst critic or your biggest supporter now that you are older. Be your biggest fan. Looks fade and are subjective. Put in the time and energy into working through this. Positive affirmations helped me. At first I felt ridiculous but it’s made a big difference.