What stuff to buy to help her fit in to camp

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 9:02 pm

imamother153 wrote:

It used to be a nerdy brand. Has that changed? I’ve seen a lot of veja sneakers online.

Still not considered a young brand. Works for boys polos on clearance and if they have a nice pair of sneakers that can also fly but I’d sooner get a no brand pair.

Mommyg8

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 9:03 pm

sequoia wrote:

Um... yes.

So weird how you know my friends better than I do.

There’s this frum couple in our group, he wears tzitzit out and everything, and no one has randomly “not accepted” them.

People can be friends on the basis of something other than clothes. What a novel concept.

I think young kids and teens are different than adults in that way. I can be friends with women who dress differently and have different hashkafos but kids are different.

Learning

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 9:42 pm

erm wrote:

My daughter in 10th wears long hard tail skirts and plain t-shirts. Check out talking fashion on coney. They have what the typical Flatbush teens wear.

When Dd went to camp last summer she bought a lot of hard tail matching T-shirt outfit (mostly har tail) and dresses for every day etc. She told she ended up mostly wearing long skirt which she had two or three and t-shirt. All the other clothes were untouched.

Ora in town

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 11:03 pm

Learning wrote:

That's more or less what I would have guessed.
Happy to learn, that camp is not a fashion show, after all...

Ora in town

Sun, Jun 14 2020, 11:10 pm

lilies wrote:

You seem to have misunderstood my point.
A frum couple where he wears his tzitzit out and everything isn't quite what I meant.

The ideology of someone dressing chassidish isn't usually accepted by secular people.
No one I know bases their relationship with others on the basis of clothes, but you probably can't believe that, as you post clearly implies.

That's what I meant above. It's not that someone would be rejected by "the outside world" because they wear, as you said, "full chassidish garb". It's more that chassidim themselves tend to isolate themselves from the outside world and are not so much interested in striking up friendships with anyone who would not wear "full chassidic garb". I have the impression that there is a lot of misperception around this subject: that chassidim feel rejected or intimidated, while really they are very hesitant to build up deeper relations to anyone who is not exactly like them...

DrMom

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 12:02 am

imamother153 wrote:

It used to be a nerdy brand. Has that changed? I’ve seen a lot of veja sneakers online.

What is a "nerdy" brand?

And why would anyone encourage something so shallow as judging someone based on which company manufactured her shoes?

It just boggles the mind that a community that is supposed to be Torah-centric would care about something so silly.... and inculcate this attitude in their children.

I find myself agreeing a lot with Ora in this thread.

Catcher

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 2:24 am

I think buying a teenager one or two items which qualify as on-trend is not a bad idea. But to go for an entire top-to-toe brand-name outfit is not necessary and doesn't convey the values that we want to impart.
You want your child to be accepted for who she is, not what she owns or how fashionable she is. Comfort is paramount, especially for active teens. If she's dead set on getting the latest sneakers, and perhaps can even contribute to the cost out of her own savings, I can't see whats wrong with that.

DVOM

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 3:27 am

pause wrote:

Wow, Ora, you sure are persistent - to put it politely.

Or maybe you don't read social cues so well...?

So I'll tell you what everyone else here is too polite to say: Shut up and go away.

Ouch. Not nice!!!

Seriously? Is 'shut up and go away' the best you can do when you disagree with someone?

I wish my kids lived in a society like the one Ora is describing. I kind of do. I don't dress fashionably, and I have lots of friends of all sorts. For a long long time I dressed my boys for comfort and durability and thrift. But they're bigger now, and they want tyros and very loud sneakers and skinny pants. And I'm buying them. I don't mind standing out, but I can understand my pre-teens' desire to blend in. If a mom sees her daughter struggling or suffering because she's not quite getting what's in and what's not, I can understand why she'd do some research and give her a push in the right direction.

mommy3b2c

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 4:19 am

Amelia Bedelia wrote:

What type of white sneakers? Can you post links? Dd and I have been searching for white sneakers

I got cute ones at Zara and next direct. Check Nordstrom as well

mommy3b2c

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 4:27 am

DVOM wrote:

The society she is describing sounds great, but it doesn’t exist. I myself am like that. I have friends of all kinds and I don’t care how anyone dresses. But the fact is, even most adults are not like that. And it’s important to help kids fit in. What ora keeps repeating is unrealistic.

Ora in town

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 4:42 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

What seems interesting to me in threads like this one and other threads about conformity (e.g. "Men exercising in chareidi areas") is that no-one perceives themselves as the enforcer of those weird social norms, while many of the posters (e.g. on this thread here) clearly are! They even resort to name calling ("weirdo" "nerd" "oddball" "misfit")!!! So, it would be no wonder, if the mothers already think and speak like this, that their children would shun children who do not conform...

But when you take them up on this, they will answer "I am very tolerant, but all the others..."

Last edited by Ora in town on Mon, Jun 15 2020, 4:51 am; edited 1 time in total

mommy3b2c

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 4:50 am

Ora in town wrote:

What seems interesting to me in threads like this one and other threads about conformity (e.g. "What can husband wear for jogging in Beitar illit or Bnei Brak?") is that no-one perceives themselves as the enforcer of those weird social norms, while many of the posters (e.g. on this thread here) clearly are! They even resort to name calling ("weirdo" "nerd" "oddball" "misfit")!!! So, it would be no wonder, if the mothers already think and speak like this, that their children would shun children who do not conform...

But when you take them up on this, they will answer "I am very tolerant, but all the others..."

Interestingly enough I thought that jogging thread was bizarre because I thought that was taking things way to the extreme. But I don’t think this thread and that thread are similar at all. That thread is about adults being shunned for jogging.
This thread is about a mom helping her daughter feel secure with a few stylish items. Very different in my opinion.

Ora in town

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 4:55 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

My question remains: Why would mom rely on "stylish items" for her daughter to feel secure?

I understand that teenagers themselves might believe they need "stylish items" to "fit in", and if they express desires in this sense, I would yield to a certain extend. (e.g. give them a budget and let them buy what they want)

But going on a research mission as mother... and finding dozens of mothers who confirm that this is very important... that's a whole different ball game...

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 4:57 am

Ora in town wrote:

My question remains: Why would mom rely on "stylish items" for her daughter to feel secure?

I understand that teenagers themselves might believe they need "stylish items" to "fit in", and if they express desires in this sense, I would yield to a certain extend. (e.g. give them a budget and let them buy what they want)

But going on a research mission as mother... and finding dozends of mothers who confirm that this is very important... that's a whole different ball game...

No one besides you is , obsessively, at this point pondering that question. On someone else’s thread where your opinion is clearly not helpful (the first time to make a point, fine, after that move on)

mommy3b2c

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 5:04 am

Ora in town wrote:

She is not relying on the items. She is using the items as an added bonus. This was explained to you many times. You are not interested in hearing it. I try very hard to instill confidence in my kids and teach them that externals don’t matter. I also, try to find out which items are stylish for them so they don’t stick out. One does not negate the other.

Ora in town

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 5:09 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

It does. But interesting that you do not perceive it...
That's what I meant before when I said that the enforcers of those social norms do not perceive themselves as such...

mommy3b2c

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 5:28 am

Ora in town wrote:

It does. But interesting that you do not perceive it...
That's what I meant before when I said that the enforcers of those social norms do not perceive themselves as such...

It doesn’t.

Whatever. You’re the poster who once accused me of never having met anyone outside my own little box. 😂😂😂

You have a very difficult time perceiving things outside of your own little box. You just don’t see it.

DrMom

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 5:33 am

Quote:

Now, the Star-Bell Sneetches had bellies with stars.
The Plain-Belly Sneetches had none upon thars.
Those stars weren’t so big. They were really so small.
You might think such a thing wouldn’t matter at all.

But, because they had stars, all the Star-Belly Sneetches
Would brag, “We’re the best kind of Sneetch on the beaches.”
With their snoots in the air, they would sniff and they’d snort
“We’ll have nothing to do with the Plain-Belly sort!”
And, whenever they met some, when they were out walking,
They’d hike right on past them without even talking…

Simple1

Mon, Jun 15 2020, 5:47 am

DrMom wrote:

Quote:

I love that book! Should be required reading.

The problem is that this needs to be fixed on a community level because no one wants their child to be the Guinea pig.