Aliyah - my two cents

amother

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:44 am

https://www.imamother.com/foru.....rt=60

I had just wanted to add my two cents to the above locked topic, despite know that nothing will come of it, given human propensity to be reactionary rather than pre-emptive. Consider this a vent, even if I'm not up to fielding responses. Just so you know how I feel about this sorry state of affairs.

I've been wondering where's the middah k'neged middah with respect to the plight of American Jewry. I.E. for the past decades, so many charedim in Israel were supported by Americans. Yet now, when the mazalot have flipped, and the ground is burning under our feet, why isn't there an initiative from the Israeli end to help get every last one of America's Orthodox Jewry, from young to old, to safe ground in Israel? Wouldn't that be middah k'neged middah in the positive sense?

Even if it means setting up huge tents on the grounds of kibbutzim, and inside those tents, placing many smaller tents for families to live in? With the outer tent containing heaters / AC / Johns-To-Go / dining-tables.

Even if it means coordinating with American askanim to organize a huge fleet of ships, onto which we can travel together with our necessary belongings (not just the measly two suitcases allowed by airlines as checked baggage). I seem to recall that long ago my cousins moved to Israel on a ship with their belongings. So why have things changed so much, that it's a major trauma for people to get themselves and their belongings there? Not everyone has big money - or the strength for so much trauma. So as if lack of money/koach isn't trauma enough, they're doubly penalized that they never get to escape?

BTW, I wish to avoid another Operation Magic Carpet which I gather was grossly mismanaged.

Also, when I referred to the tents, it's as a stop-gap measure. I wasn't meaning for them to be quite like the "maabarot" of the 1950s.

Rappel

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:51 am

We actually are.

Back when the Covid 19 was strong, my friends and I sewed virus-safe masks to send to the States.

Another friend started an initiative where people whom own apartments in Yerushalayim are signing on to go live in hilltops and rent their homes to olim as they come in.

There's a grassroots idea from one of the rabbaniyot here in Itamar to turn all of Gav Hahar into a merkaz klitah for people from one country - 20 families per town, central cultural meetups and activities in Bahad 3, and every town will help these people get on their feet until they are strong enough to go live wherever they want to live in Israel.

People are preparing all around me. There is this great sense of anticipation, that a huge wave of kibbutz galuyot is coming.

But no one is coming yet.

ora_43

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:57 am

I'm confused by this post.

There is an initiative on the Israeli end, and always has been. It's called aliya. The Israeli government will fly you here for free and offer grants and services meant to help you learn Hebrew, find a job, and settle in.

This has nothing to do with money for hareidim. The idea re: donations to hareidi Israelis was always that it was a issachar/zevulun thing, where what people get in exchange for their donation is the zchut of Torah learning in Eretz Yisrael. Completely separately, the Israeli government is ready at all times to grant citizenship to any Jew who wants to live here.

It is much much easier to get to Israel than it was in the past. Air travel is easier, faster, and safer than sea travel. Belongings can be shipped via 'lift.' Beyond that, you can buy pretty much whatever you need here.

There is no issue of people arriving and not having anywhere to go, to the point where they'd appreciate the opportunity to live in a giant tent.

amother

Pewter

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:58 am

Read the threads here about aliyah. The problem isn't that Israel isn't helping, it's that American Jews don't want to come. Even if their houses magically transported, they don't want to learn Hebrew or deal with Israeli culture.

There's no question that Israel is now the center the of Jewish life, and it's a matter of time before the majority of the world's Jews live in Israel. It depends on how you count.

Israel sends aid to plenty of less fortunate Jewish communities, and now, for the first time, that includes some in the United States. (For example, Teva pharmaceuticals sent medicine for covid-19.)

Israel is no longer the poor relative in this relationship, for better or for worse.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 5:59 am

What makes you think that people in Monsey and Boro Park WANT to make Aliyah?

Most Americans are perfectly comfortable where they are, and you don't make Aliyah to be comfortable, you come here because you feel like it is your home, and because you believe in the importance of the Land. You come here for the kedusha.

If your life is cushy in the US, you have a job, and your kids like their schools, then you're not going to leave so soon.

IMHO, some people are going to need an engraved invitation from Moshiach before they'll set foot outside their daled amot.

amother

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 6:11 am

Look, I'll give one more response, even if I said I'm not up to it, which I'm really not. My head is nearly exploding from reading the above responses which didn't address my nitty-gritty idea for a WELL-ORGANIZED plan for mass aliyah, the way R' Sherer zt'l might plan it.

I'm speaking of over-generalizing, as if ALL of us are having the problem with the "culture" thing.

Please STOP generalizing, as if our lives are clones of each other! If you only only knew the situations of at least some Americans, you'd eat crow a zillion times!! I'm tempted to snap a few pics just for the shock factor, geared toward certain Israeli's who in their wildest dreams can't imagine the living conditions of some Americans. But even more than that, who can take pics. of bodywide physical pain? That's not something which is explainable superficially.

Back to the point, it's a matter of hatzalat nefashot, even if half of Americans are too asleep inside their luxury cocoons to recognize it.

Would YOU want to transfer somewhere without the belongings which you really need, for your health, or whatever? So how to fit that into 2 suitcases?

As for renting peoples' apartments, granted it's a lovely gesture, but where are ads about that, including costs, and so forth? And what if not everyone can afford it? And how to transfer money especially if the socialist powers-that-be decide to crash the economy prior to the attempt to get money transferred? And how many apts. would be available to accommodate masses, for crying out loud.

There's so many loose ends, its too crazy for words. Now I'm sorry I started this thread, because I just can't handle this anymore. Sorry. Sad

I'm seeing some of the later responses, most of which jump to conclusions about my particular situation, and/or are living in past times when regulations were less tight, and also don't realize that lifts can be uncertain in these unstable times, so that it's safer to have everything with you. Not just that, but not everyone needs a 40-foot lift. So yet again, there's over-generalizing, as well meant as they were.

I doubt R' Sherer would have made such "one-size-fits-all" assumptions.

Rappel

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 6:17 am

OP, I hear your pain. I'm very worried for chutznikim too - there is change on the wind, and it doesn't blow good for Jews in foreign countries.

And what we're all trying to tell you is: Israelis want to help. As you say, for every individual family, that will mean something different. Some will want to only be in Yerushalayim, some will only want to be out in the sticks. Some will want to davka learn Hebrew, some will never want to learn Hebrew. Some will come with 20 suitcases and a life they never wanted to leave behind, some will come with one suitcase and so many painful memories that it makes your breath catch. But everyone is welcome here, and we're ready to help you come home.

amother

Pewter

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 6:20 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Look, I'll give one more response, even if I said I'm not up to it, which I'm really not. My head is nearly exploding from reading the above responses which didn't address my nitty-gritty idea.

I'm speaking of over-generalizing, as if ALL of us are having the problem with the "culture" thing.

Please STOP generalizing, as if our lives are clones of each other! If you only knew, you'd eat crow a zillion times.

At this point, it's like hatzalat nefashot, even if half of Americans are too asleep inside their luxury cocoons to recognize it.

Would YOU want to transfer somewhere without the belongings which you really need, for your health, or whatever? So how to fit that into 2 suitcases?

As for renting peoples' apartments, granted it's a lovely gesture, but where are ads about that, including costs, and so forth? And what if not everyone can afford it? And how to transfer money especially if the socialist powers-that-be decide to crash the economy prior to the attempt to get money transferred? And how many apts. would be available to accommodate masses, for crying out loud.

There's so many loose ends, its too crazy for words. Now I'm sorry I started this thread, because I just can't handle this anymore. Sorry. Sad

Of course not all Americans have a culture problem. Some of us actually left behind our cushy lives to move. Why are you so sure that we have no idea how you Americans live?

And you don't need to pack all your belongings into 2 bags, so don't worry. Send a lift. Or buy stuff when you get to Israel.

People with far fewer resources than most American Jews have managed to immigrate to Israel and to thrive. The key is to be committed. It may not be easy, but to those who think it's worthwhile, the sacrifices can be borne. And quite frankly, it's not the 50s. Life in Israel is pretty good these days.

Israel has accommodated mass aliyah before. Not always easily, but it's really miraculous when you consider the conditions.

אם תרצו, אין זו אגדה

essie14

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 6:26 am

Rappel wrote:

This is beautifully said.
OP, if someone wants to make aliyah, it's not really all that hard.
There are plenty of apartments to rent for the numbers who currently want to come. Its very easy to transfer money from the US to a bank account here.
The state of Israel pays for your plane ticket and gives you sal klitah plus rent subsidies, plus major discounts on arnona and mortgage and buying a car.
Of course a person still needs to get a job, just like in America. everyone in the world needs to work hard, no matter where they live.
No one wants to take a ship from America to Israel. Get rid of unnecessary belongings and ship your stuff on a lift and then just get on a plane.

Ora in town

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 6:29 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

https://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=393581&start=60

I had just wanted to add my two cents to the above locked topic, despite know that nothing will come of it, given human propensity to be reactionary rather than pre-emptive. Consider this a vent, even if I'm not up to fielding responses. Just so you know how I feel about this sorry state of affairs.

I've been wondering where's the middah k'neged middah with respect to the plight of American Jewry. I.E. for the past decades, so many charedim in Israel were supported by Americans. Yet now, when the mazalot have flipped, and the ground is burning under our feet, why isn't there an initiative from the Israeli end to help get every last one of America's Orthodox Jewry, from young to old, to safe ground in Israel? Wouldn't that be middah k'neged middah in the positive sense?.

Israel has programs for "klita", I.e. insertion for jews from all over the world. You just need to come...
they offer free language courses, housing if you need, etc.
The idea is that every jew from all over the world should be able to come, even without a cent in his pocket.

For the past 30 years Israel had some shortage of manual labor and needed to bring in migrants from all over the world to cover the needs... hence the "philipina" who cares for the elderly or the rumanian contractor...

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Even if it means setting up huge tents on the grounds of kibbutzim, and inside those tents, placing many smaller tents for families to live in? With the outer tent containing heaters / AC / Johns-To-Go / dining-tables.

Israel, specially Jerusalem is full of empty housing that belongs to rich foreigners who decide to stay where they are and just come for vacation...
That's one of the reasons for the explosion of housing prices, specially in Jerusalem.

PS: There are quite a few european contries that have more citizens in Israel than members of jewish communities in the country... Aliya is a reality... and it empties quite a few jewish communities in Europe...

Last edited by Ora in town on Tue, Jun 16 2020, 6:33 am; edited 1 time in total

ora_43

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 6:29 am

I'm still not sure I understand your idea.

It sounds like you're saying that there's too much bureaucracy/nitty gritty details involved in immigrating? Eg people have to figure out how to ship their things, they have to find ads to see what apartments are for rent, they have to figure out how to transfer money...

I agree that all of those things can make aliya feel impossibly difficult.

But I also think that making that easier wouldn't be doing people any favors, since that's actually not the hard part of aliya. The hard part is learning the language, adjusting to a new culture, finding a job, and basically rebuilding your entire life on a new continent.

If there's an obstacle to aliya up front that means that the only people who end up making aliya are people who are able to invest time and effort into figuring out the system - that's not necessarily a bad thing. Anyone who doesn't have the time (or energy, or ability, etc) to figure out how to ship their things over is going to have a very difficult time adjusting to a whole new system where everything from taking a bus to registering for school to buying coffee is unfamiliar, and moving to a new country might not be right for them right now.

Last edited by ora_43 on Tue, Jun 16 2020, 6:33 am; edited 1 time in total

chanchy123

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 6:37 am

I haven’t read the whole thread yet. But have a few points:
Dror Israel just sent a delegation to NY support our American brethren in the trying times. They are set to meet with Brooklyn frum Jews (this is a secular organization AFAIK) to show our support.
I don’t understand why Israel has more responsibility towards Orthodox Jews than Jews of other denominations - we want everyone to come home.

amother

Blue

Tue, Jun 16 2020, 6:40 am

chanchy123 wrote:

I agree, but we could really do without more Women of the Wall-type people.