Shomer negiah for the 'right' guy

amother

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 3:35 pm

I heard from a friend that when she wasn't shomer with a guy she was dating, her rav told her that it's better to break it off so that she can be shomer with the person she ends up marrying.

Is there a source for this?

Success10

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 3:41 pm

Is there a source for shomer negiah? Or just shomer with the individual she ends up marrying (which no one can know at the get go)?

shabbatiscoming

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 3:46 pm

OP, for what, being shomer negiah? Or to break up with a guy because she wasnt shomer negiah (which in of itself is a silly reason to break up)

ora_43

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 3:51 pm

Weird, I've never heard of such a thing. Maybe the rav was thinking that if the guy was encouraging these lapses in shomer negiah, he wouldn't be such a great husband? IOW the rav was basically encouraging her to find someone frummer?

(... although 'frummer' isn't the only reason it would be easier to keep negiah, 'less attracted' would also do it... I do hope that whoever she ended up with/ends up with, it's someone she finds attractive. Shomer negiah shouldn't be too easy.)

amother

Emerald

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 4:02 pm

I had heard that a guy was told the opposite when he asked:
The girl who you touched in sin, you should touch only in purity. I.e. marry her ASAP.

ora_43

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 4:09 pm

I was curious so looked around a bit... The closest thing I saw was a rav warning a bachur who was worried that he and his fiancee were going to slip up on negiah that not keeping negiah could cause the fiancee to lose some of her respect for him.

The idea that there could be a loss of respect was the closest thing I saw to a suggestion that a failure to keep negiah can hurt that specific relationship.

OTOH, where people had questions along the lines of "my boyfriend and I aren't managing to keep negiah" I didn't see anyone telling them to break up What

just to be more careful about avoiding yichud, and to resolve to do better in the future.

amother

Emerald

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 4:27 pm

I wonder if an answer is different depending which party does the asking. Perhaps...
The male asking is told to marry her.
A female asking is told to look elsewhere.

That is an interesting thought and I can see some logic in that.

amother

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 4:44 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

Why do you say that? Aren't they both responsible for these actions?

amother

Indigo

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 9:36 pm

I married my high school boyfriend. We hadn’t been shomer but I started when we were getting engaged. When I was newly married a friend of mine told me that she’s relieved she didn’t end up dating her husband in high school (it had almost happened), because a rav told them that if you’re not shomer negia before marriage, you won’t have a good marriage. She knew very well that I hadn’t been. It was very tactless of her to say. It always stuck with me and made me feel very bad and blame all my marriage problems on that.

amother

Bronze

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 9:47 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

I had heard that a guy was told the opposite when he asked:
The girl who you touched in sin, you should touch only in purity. I.e. marry her ASAP.

I understood if they were intimate...more than just not bring shomer negiah

causemommysaid

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 10:06 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

why are you letting some foolish tactless girl have any affect on your marriage? You know everything she said is baloney.

Focus on your marriage and ignore her.

amother

Sapphire

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 10:47 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I heard a rabbi and also someone else say that anything that starts out in sin will not last or will be bad. Touching before marriage will end up with the marriage being bad or ending. I saw it a lot of times.

amother

Sapphire

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 10:48 pm

causemommysaid wrote:

why are you letting some foolish tactless girl have any affect on your marriage? You know everything she said is baloney.

Focus on your marriage and ignore her.

Baloney? Why do u comment that on something u don’t know? She’s right and rabbis said it. Do u know something better than the rabbis know?

amother

Pewter

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 11:08 pm

2 things but the first is most important.

The biggest gift that Hashem gave us is the ability to do Teshuva. To focus on past sins that you no longer do is very counter productive.

The second thing is that I have learned on the day of your wedding you forgiven your past sins so you consider all of this in the past.

amother

Gold

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 11:14 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Why do you say that? Aren't they both responsible for these actions?

No. If the guy asks he shows he has some Yiras shemayim. If a girl asks she wants to do tshuva.

amother

Teal

Sat, Jun 20 2020, 11:30 pm

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

I disagree completely. I know hundreds or couple who were not shomer negiah and they have great, solid marriages. And I know so many divorced couples who never touched before marriage.

amother

Cerise

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 1:18 am

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

Baloney? Why do u comment that on something u don’t know? She’s right and rabbis said it. Do u know something better than the rabbis know?

Yes, I know that there are countless solid, great marriages out there where the couple was not shomer.
The rabbi said this was not possible. It's really not hard to disprove. Just look around you. Do you really think all the secular people have bad marriages?

amother

Emerald

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 2:41 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Why do you say that? Aren't they both responsible for these actions?

Yes, of course.
The thought that each might get a different answer upsets me.
But, if this is true, it would be because the assumption is the man is the pursuer. (of course not always true) so he cannot escape himself. The best he can do is marry the lady.
If the woman asks, though, she in theory should find a man with more respect, who will leave her alone until marriage.

amother

Violet

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 3:31 am

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

What utter nonsense. He was probably using scare tactics to make sure that she was shomer negiah. What an awful thing for a rabbi to do.

We were not fully shomer negiah and have a fine marriage. One has nothing to do with the other.

amother

Violet

Sun, Jun 21 2020, 3:33 am

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

Again, probably trying scare tactics so you were shomer.
There are many couples that start off being not shomer negiah and they have wonderful marriages. It is of course possible.

We were not fully shomer and our marriage is not bad and it is not ending. We work hard for our good marriage.
There is no connection between the two things. Just scare tactics.