Singing and chanting in shul is banned

PinkFridge

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 8:26 am

I have to take a look at the link. If it's anything like the De Blasio debacle, I understand irritation or more.
BUT if you read any of the guidelines for opening up, they all said not to prolong davening with chazzanus, etc. Most of this has fallen by the wayside but as there are upticks, I think it would be a very good idea.

amother

Chocolate

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 8:30 am

imorethanamother what you say makes perfect sense

seemingly safest would be everyone in shul must wear a mask SD baal tefila could sing facing away as is traditional others not sing....if possible outdoor minyan best

the inconsistencies are what gets people and undermines credibility of message.

understandably

amother

Turquoise

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 8:31 am

I honestly don't get the issue. We're talking about a state where the cases are rising, people seem to be conflating this with grievances in NY. The shuls there should be putting these precautions in place of their own accord anyway.

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 8:33 am

Singing is banned in our FL shul too. Even though they are already outdoors, spaced out over 6 feet and wearing masks. The stupidity is never-ending.

amother

Turquoise

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 8:35 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

Singing is banned in our FL shul too. Even though they are already outdoors, spaced out over 6 feet and wearing masks. The stupidity is never-ending.

Stupidity is people who fail to heed warnings. The pandemic is getting out of hand in many states. Look how the cases are rising in Florida. Why do you even need someone to mandate these precautions? You should be doing it anyway. I just don't get it.

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 8:37 am

amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:

Because the warnings and precautions are overboard and based on fear and panic not on science, logic or common sense.

amother

Turquoise

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 8:38 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

Because the warnings and precautions are overboard and based on fear and panic not on science, logic or common sense.

What part of not singing is based on fear and panic? It has proven to be one of the worst spreaders.

And this is instead of going back into full lockdown, which some states may have to do if people just fail to take this seriously.

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 8:40 am

amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:

What part of not singing is based on fear and panic? It has proven to be one of the worst spreaders.

And this is instead of going back into full lockdown, which many states may have to do if people just fail to take this seriously.

When people are 10 feet apart outside wearing masks? Which study was that? Please post that study and I will admit I'm wrong.

Rutabaga

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 8:41 am

This sounds like common sense to me. It's already been proven that singing in a room together, even if socially distanced, can be a super spreader event. There was a choir rehearsal where many people came down with the virus. If people don't follow the regulations to wear masks and be careful then shuls and businesses will get shut down again. I'm sure my husband isn't the only man who'd prefer to daven quietly with a minyan than not be able to daven with a minyan at all.

amother

Chocolate

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 8:44 am

FL mom makes a good point.

not apples to apples

and again if thousands can protest, hold hands, link arms, crowd together and riot and chant and scream...then it undermines the credibility of the message even if the message is right.

because people figure oh then it is not life threatening rather some political or misguided statement or something

imorethanamother

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 11:35 am

Rutabaga wrote:

There is no proof of anything. And “super spreader” is not a scientific term, it’s a media term not based on anything but an anecdote.

imorethanamother

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 11:45 am

amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:

The important thing to ask is why are these cases rising and among which population. Notice that Newsom ignores this data in favor of speculation that its religious services are causing the spread. In california, where the paranoia about religion is rampant.

Maybe in Israel and New York you can’t understand this, but this state penalizes religious groups. A sick child, a special needs child, a child with some slight learning issues - none of them are allowed to get meals, transportation, or any kind of help at all at any religious school. I’ve also seen first hand the disgust of some officials in Sacramento when meeting with the frum community constituents.

soap suds

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 11:46 am

ora_43 wrote:

Singing is traditional, but it isn't a critical part of the religious service, at least not for Jews or Christians. So I'm not sure this would be a violation of constitutional rights. Maybe someone will make a lawsuit out of it, and then we'll see.

Banning protest would be hugely problematic, although if there aren't guidelines about virus safety for protesters, there should be. Just like the right to practice religion doesn't necessarily mean the right to sing, the right to assemble doesn't necessarily mean the right to assemble without distancing or masks.

Is chanting necessary for a protest? Why not say that people can match, holding up their posters, but no chanting/yelling? If it’s truly a health concern it should be applied equally across the board.

imorethanamother

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 11:50 am

ora_43 wrote:

Why do you assume that banning protests are problematic? You know you usually have to get permits to organize protest at public locations? Those were given out freely. No one insisted they protest via zoom, to exercise their freedom of assembly, which is what they told religious people to do to exercise their freedom of religion. Why is one okay and the other not okay?

PinkFridge

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 12:02 pm

soap suds wrote:

Is chanting necessary for a protest? Why not say that people can match, holding up their posters, but no chanting/yelling?

Wow! Great idea! That should work. And while we're at it, tell people not to riot and loot.
(insert eye roll emoji, I can't find it.)

Would that the governors and mayors have that basic common sense. Have you read di Blasio's comments about how it's necessary now to address the pain of 400 years, that that's different? Banging head

Mama Bear

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 7:01 pm

What else do you do in shul besides singing and chanting?
Eating? drinking?
Using the bathroom?
Shaking hands & hugging bc there's a simcha?
For gosh sakes, that's what a shul is.
It's like allowing you to attend school but forbidding the teachers to teach or the students to speak.

avrahamama

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 7:22 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

We have a pain too. Of over a few thousand years. The shechina in galut and being out of our homeland.

We need to address that pain.

Shabbat shalom everyone. I really hope to meet you all in yerushalayim.

imaamy

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 7:41 pm

RuralIma wrote:

Are there shuls opening in California already?

ETA: if singing is going to potentially spread the virus then this makes sense. He's not saying that people have to give up their rights, but adjust just like with countless other things that are changing in our post-covid world.
And yes, it would be nice if the same standard was required across the board, including protests, but it's California Can't Believe It

In San Diego, about a month ago the Orthodox Shuls started having outdoor minyanim. Not sure how much longer it will last as cases are ramping up here.

amother

Coral

Fri, Jul 03 2020, 7:42 pm

I think that Jews should get together in front of the mayors house and have a nice big prayer service there complete with singing and chanting. This way the mayor wont be able to shut them down because it will be a peaceful protest and that is perfectly fine with the mayor. Good Shabbos.