What do Israeli girls do after High School?

amother

Pearl

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 2:50 am

What does BY but not yeshvish mean?
If she is more BY hashkaficly Chedvas is a really good fit - they have 2 tracks, 1 for american israeli's 1 for shana bet americans fro BY sems. She could dorm or live at home and they allow girls to combine classes with any of the charedi college programs. They are BY hashkafa though - BY tznuis standards, push kollel....

If she is more DL I think a well researched Sherut program would be a good way to integrate and make friends - you just need to make sure it's the right fit - for example my friends in MADA in J'lem seemed to have a lot of inappropriate relationships happening, while my friend who did sherut in Yad Binyamin felt stifled and felt it was way to "frummy". The right place with the right group of girls could be a great experience.

If she is not quite BY but doesn't have zionistic leanings I would recomend jumping straight into a charedi college - she can become friends with other charedi girls - but it's more of a "chilled" atmosphere. Places like Campus Strauss, Mivchar....

DrMom

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 3:02 am

chanchy123 wrote:

There are all kinds of students but there is a big Dati social scene. They have shabbatonim, events surrounding chagim. My husband graduated from BA and his social circle who he’s kept in touch with throughout the years are all dati to some extent. While my social circle in Hebrew U was more of a mix. In Bar Ilan you’ll have many shiurim on campus and events geared towards the more religious students as well especially if you’re part of the kolel or midrasha. It’s not a frum school by any stretch but definitely has more of an atmosphere.

Thanks! V helpful info.

amother

Puce

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 3:38 am

DrMom wrote:

I know this is a side topic, but can you elaborate? I am curious about the atmosphere and quality of education at this university. I know one does not have to be dati to attend, but I understood there was a dati atmosphere on campus.

Speaking as a current Bar Ilan student.

The anglo girls in the midrasha are largely obnoxious, spending their time either sleeping in the breastfeeding room (I had to kick them out multiple times to breastfeed) and walk around speaking loudly and wearing mini skirts. Even the women in the office roll their eyes at them.

The campus does not have a dati atmosphere. Some professors partially cover their hair, but the majority of mine were completely secular. They showed plenty inappropriate stuff during my degree, including stupid movies with 'romantic scenes' which were completely unnecessary and did nothing to add to the learning experience.

There are a few dati leumi students and courses in Judaism are obligatory. That's about it. Nothing else makes Bar Ilan a dati place.

amother

Puce

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 3:40 am

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

Off topic, but if your girls are in regular dati leumi schools, then never say never. 18 year old dati leumi girls have a mind of their own.

(It's amusing to me to hear moms of young kids say 'my 18 year old will NEVER' - unless you are raising your kids in a supremely sheltered environment, 18 year olds tend to make their own choices. You can encourage or discourage, but to say they will definitely not do something is overreaching).

My daughters are in a charedi chabad school in Bnei Brak. I think it's a fair sign they're not enlisting any time soon.

amother

Floralwhite

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 4:07 am

salt wrote:

I spoke to someone just last week who is a teacher, and she said there are 10 bnot sherut in her school, who sit around doing nothing all day- just playing with their phones and chatting.

This is very unusual. I work in schools, and I see that the bnot sherut work incredibly hard, sometimes too hard.

It's also very unusual for one school to receive a teken for ten bnot sherut. That must be a huge school with special needs or challenges. I've never seen a school with more than 5 bnot sherut.

LovesHashem

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 4:11 am

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

Depends where you end up. They assign you to jobs...some people work hard and some people do nothing

amother

Floralwhite

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 4:12 am

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

- you just need to make sure it's the right fit - for example my friends in MADA in J'lem seemed to have a lot of inappropriate relationships happening, while my friend who did sherut in Yad Binyamin felt stifled and felt it was way to "frummy". The right place with the right group of girls could be a great experience.

This. Sherut leumi girls and sherut leumi placements vary widely. That's why most girls tour a few places before deciding where to interview. They talk to the other girls who are currently serving there, see what types it attracts, etc.

Sherut leumi girls go the whole spectrum from mesorati to chardal. Some places have a good mix, some tend to attract more of one type than the other. I guess you need to talk to someone in the system to know the ropes.

Places like very rw ulpanot will usually only accept the more rw girls.

(MADA is known as a place where men and women work together closely).

amother

Floralwhite

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 4:14 am

LovesHashem wrote:

Depends where you end up. They assign you to jobs...some people work hard and some people do nothing

Yes, it highly depends, but most girls work very hard. I see this at the schools where I work, and I see it with my own dds who did/do sherut leumi.

Of course, if a girl really doesn't want to do much, there are places she can get away with it. It's not the army. That type of girl usually chooses a teken that doesn't demand much to begin with.

amother

Floralwhite

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 4:26 am

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

The campus does not have a dati atmosphere. Some professors partially cover their hair, but the majority of mine were completely secular. They showed plenty inappropriate stuff during my degree, including stupid movies with 'romantic scenes' which were completely unnecessary and did nothing to add to the learning experience.

There are a few dati leumi students and courses in Judaism are obligatory. That's about it. Nothing else makes Bar Ilan a dati place.

I studied at Bar Ilan years and years and years ago. I also did degrees at Hebrew U and Tel Aviv U.

Take whatever I say with a grain of salt, because it's been ages and things change.

Hebrew U was the most diverse, the least cohesive. There was a special atmosphere there though. People from all over the world, Jews, Arabs, secular, frum.

Tel Aviv U was the least diverse. You could definitely feel uncomfortable walking around there with a mitpachat. It was also the most intellectually challenging/demanding, with a very high academic level.

Bar Ilan - there were frum people there. You didn't feel uncomfortable walking around in dati dress. The datiim are a significant minority there, but I do believe they are a minority. My lecturers happened to be mainly dati at the time, and I don't recall anything that contradicted Judaism in my courses, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are such courses.

Bottom line is that if you are dati and want to go to university (which in many fields is considered MUCH higher level than college in Israel) - then Bar Ilan might be a good choice. I do know many datiim who went to the Technion, but I'm not sure what it's like there. Ariel university also has datiim, but it also has a HUGE contingent of datlashim (people who used to be dati). Still, you wouldn't feel uncomfortable there at all with a mitpachat, there are many like that.

(If someone is going to study something like teaching, and being in a frum framework is very important to them, then best to go to a women's college. The frum schools prefer you have a degree from there than from university, and it's easier by far).

Success10

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 4:53 am

I'm going to say something that a lot of people won't agree with, but why does she need to integrate into Israeli, Hebrew-speaking society head-on? She's not in elementary school. She is going to be post high school, learning a career and thinking about marriage. Many young ladies who make aliyah at that stage in life never fully integrate. They make friends with Anglos. They learn a degree in English. They marry a chutznik or a recent oleh, and they learn the ropes of Israel like any other young couple off the boat.
Yes, she will need to learn Hebrew at some point, and the sooner the better. But I just don't see how forcing her into a fully Israeli environment right off the boat will be a good move, unless she's very much the go-with-the-flow type.

amother

Puce

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 4:57 am

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

Bottom line is that if you are dati and want to go to university (which in many fields is considered MUCH higher level than college in Israel) - then Bar Ilan might be a good choice. I do know many datiim who went to the Technion, but I'm not sure what it's like there. Ariel university also has datiim, but it also has a HUGE contingent of datlashim (people who used to be dati). Still, you wouldn't feel uncomfortable there at all with a mitpachat, there are many like that.

This I agree with. Unfortunately it's a problem, particularly in yishuvim (yes, unpopular to say but I used to live in a very torani yishuv and I'd say about 60% of the kids there, especially anglos, went OTD)

DrMom

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 5:09 am

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

Thanks! This is for a boy (he won't be walking around with a mitpachat Smile

) studying in a hard science/engineering field, so the course content is unlikely to be controversial in any case.

DrMom

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 5:12 am

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

The bnot sherut in our local elementary school don't do an awful lot.

But it could be that they are not being managed well by whomever is in charge of them.

amother

Floralwhite

Mon, Jul 27 2020, 5:14 am

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

I don't know if it's particularly a yeshuv thing. My ds studies there with kids from all over, and very often it turns out that the secular guy across from him is actually a datlash - but most are actually from the cities, not the yeshuvim.

Ariel just seems to attract this population for some reason.

I also don't think 60% of kids from dati families in yeshuvim are datlash. That number is very skewed, and reflects maybe a specific torani yeshuv you lived in.

In a family with 4-7 kids, yes there is a good chance one will become secular. But that's always the chance one takes if you don't shelter your kids 100% and marry them off before they have a chance to get their bearings (and even among the sheltered, many go OTD. I should know, I work in a school full of them).