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amother




Tan
 

Post  Wed, Jul 29 2020, 1:15 am
Someone mentioned this above, and I think it's important to repeat - many dati boys don't enlist at 18 these days, they go to mechina for a year. Mine didn't, but many do.

In general, young Israelis seem to be in no hurry. Even among my dds, many of their friends took a year for shnat sherut or some other volunteer service or midrasha BEFORE the army/sherut leumi. (It's less prevalent among girls, but some do it).
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chanchy123




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 29 2020, 1:41 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
Someone mentioned this above, and I think it's important to repeat - many dati boys don't enlist at 18 these days, they go to mechina for a year. Mine didn't, but many do.

In general, young Israelis seem to be in no hurry. Even among my dds, many of their friends took a year for shnat sherut or some other volunteer service or midrasha BEFORE the army/sherut leumi. (It's less prevalent among girls, but some do it).

That’s right, I can’t think of any boy I know in recent years, from a religious school, who’s enlisted straight into the army. Even boys who are not so frum will find themselves in some sort of prep program. Anyhow, if you’re not super chareidi, the army is the big equalizer and your entrance card into Israeli society. Even my DH who was a volunteer and in the rabbanut can relate to army stories. For women it’s different. My uncle AH made Aliyah in his late 20s and had poor health, he fought to enlist despite this and was very proud to serve at a desk job even if it only was for a few months. It was very important to him to contribute and to be part of Israeli society. He was very proud sharing his military stories just as much as people I know who served in elite combat units.
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salt




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 29 2020, 1:53 am
Haven't read all the posts here, so sorry if it's been mentioned already, there is an alternative to army service, which is Sheirut Ezrachi.

Advising him to act right-wing extremist or cuckoo in order to get a exemption is crazy and immoral.

Do be in yeshiva full time and get an exemption for that, might be continuously under political discussion, but at least it's legal. But he wouldn't be able to go to college, until the age that you don't need to defer anymore (probably about 25).

In addition to Hesder which give a religious environment in the army, there is also the Nachal Chareidi unit, which is without women, and is under stricter religious supervision that other units.
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salt




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 29 2020, 1:55 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
If you get a ptor due to being charedi, then no college, because you are supposed to be in yeshiva.


Just clarifying, even though I think this is what you meant -
You don't get the ptor for being charedi, you get the ptor for being in yeshiva.
Being charedi and not being in yeshiva doesn't give you a ptor.
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Wed, Jul 29 2020, 3:24 am
salt wrote:
Just clarifying, even though I think this is what you meant -
You don't get the ptor for being charedi, you get the ptor for being in yeshiva.
Being charedi and not being in yeshiva doesn't give you a ptor.


Yes, that's what I meant of course.
There is a big problem with charedim who aren't cut out for yeshiva and yet don't want to enlist. They fall between the cracks, they are registered for yeshiva but don't show up, and yet legally they can't do anything else.
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amother




Lilac
 

Post  Wed, Jul 29 2020, 4:47 am
salt wrote:
Haven't read all the posts here, so sorry if it's been mentioned already, there is an alternative to army service, which is Sheirut Ezrachi.

Advising him to act right-wing extremist or cuckoo in order to get a exemption is crazy and immoral


I think that advice wasn't meant to be taken seriously, although I do know someone personally who really was deemed a right wing extremist and wasn't allowed to serve in the army (I don't know what he did exactly, but I did see him heading off to partake in 'protests' in East Jerusalem where basically a bunch of Jewish hooligans went in and beat up Arabs). People like that don't get an automatic ticket to freedom. He was sent to do sherut ezrachi in a hospital.

But tbh, especially for men, the 'blemish' of not being accepted into the army for such a reason follows them around for life and often does get asked about in job interviews later in life. Who wants to employ a nutjob?
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Wed, Jul 29 2020, 4:53 am
amother [ Lilac ] wrote:
I think that advice wasn't meant to be taken seriously, although I do know someone personally who really was deemed a right wing extremist and wasn't allowed to serve in the army (I don't know what he did exactly, but I did see him heading off to partake in 'protests' in East Jerusalem where basically a bunch of Jewish hooligans went in and beat up Arabs). People like that don't get an automatic ticket to freedom. He was sent to do sherut ezrachi in a hospital.

But tbh, especially for men, a 'blemish' of not being accepted into the army for such a reason follows them around for life and often does get asked about in job interviews later in life. Who wants to employ a nutjob?


Agree with most of what you said (although I am not sure the advice wasn't meant seriously).

One thing - a guy (or girl) with a ptor from the army have a ptor. Period. They don't have to do anything else. I find it hard to believe they gave this guy a ptor and sent him to do sherut ezrachi, unless he was a special case with a possible record on him or something.

A girl with a ptor from the army volunteers for sherut leumi. Nobody will come knocking on her door to see if she's doing it. Same with a guy.

I do agree that in Israel it's considered a huge disadvantage not to have served in job interviews, although I believe that today the reason WHY you didn't serve is confidential, and they are not allowed to even ask.
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amother




Lilac
 

Post  Wed, Jul 29 2020, 5:07 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
Agree with most of what you said (although I am not sure the advice wasn't meant seriously).

One thing - a guy (or girl) with a ptor from the army have a ptor. Period. They don't have to do anything else. I find it hard to believe they gave this guy a ptor and sent him to do sherut ezrachi, unless he was a special case with a possible record on him or something.

A girl with a ptor from the army volunteers for sherut leumi. Nobody will come knocking on her door to see if she's doing it. Same with a guy.

I do agree that in Israel it's considered a huge disadvantage not to have served in job interviews, although I believe that today the reason WHY you didn't serve is confidential, and they are not allowed to even ask.


He had some kind of criminal record and was placed under house arrest at some stage (I wasn't told why, but I think he did some rock throwing in E. Jerusalem).

Lol there are a lot of stuff in Israeli job interviews which they aren't allowed to ask and ask anyway- women of childbearing age know too well! He can refuse to answer if asked, but that makes him look even more suspicious.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 29 2020, 5:40 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
How long is army service? If you get a ptur does that mean no college? My son wants college.

Thank you to all who posted. These are all different ideas. I really appreciate it. I really know zero. I just want to know what I'm getting myself into. Open eyes.

If he serves in an intelligence unit (only if there is a religious unit), doesnt he still need basic training? Can he be called up from reserves after serving obligatory time? Are the frum units really frum? Can one still get hurt in an intelligence unit (the army is the army!). Sorry if some of these questions seem stupid.

AFAIK, a ptur = no college. If presumably he is not serving in the army because he is learning Torah full-time, then how could he attend college? Most Israelis who go on to higher education attend college after serving their time the army.

Yes, Intelligence units can get called up for milluim just like everybody else.

I suppose one could still get hurt in an intelligence unit. You could trip over a stray laptop or fall down a flight of stairs or get carpal tunnel syndrome.

No job is risk-free.
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Iymnok




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 29 2020, 5:47 am
Yeshiva students may get a dichui then they have to go through the process again.
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grivky




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 29 2020, 6:09 am
I didn’t read all the posts and I don’t know where you fit hashkafically, but it may be worth it for you to look into this yeshiva https://www.derechaim.com/en/ . It’s an American chareidi Hesder yeshiva that does their army service in the high tech field.
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Jul 29 2020, 6:24 am
This thread is going to become the master thread of army information. Smile What great posts.
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amother




Lilac
 

Post  Wed, Jul 29 2020, 6:44 am
DrMom wrote:
Yes, Intelligence units can get called up for milluim just like everybody else


Buuuut in reality they don't do this much because-
once you've left the field you're not 'up to date' on all the new goings on and especially with computers you need to constantly be learning new stuff to be with it
it's too expensive to pay a hi-tech worker his normal wage while he's in milium and in the end doesn't pay off for the army

My dh hasn't been called up for milium for about 3 years and even then it's the same hours as his usual hi-tech job (or even less). Also he doesn't wear uniform, which is really depressing as his wife lol.
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