Does this chinuch exsist in israel

amother

Thu, Jul 30 2020, 11:26 pm

My oldest kid is seven so if I am going to move it has to be in the next 2-3 years. My biggest concern is the Israeli education system. My boys are in Darchei in the five towns. I feel they are given all the tools to make their own choice. If they want to learn five years after marriage no problem. If they want to go to college after high school that’s also an option. I am technically yeshivish, dh wears a black hat but I don’t really associate with charadei and I don’t either associate with mizrachi. I know children can get “messed up” anywhere but I’ve seen a very large percentage of families like me make Aliya and the kids having a very hard time because they don’t fit into any Israeli box. We are the American gray. Is there any system that I should look into or does someone like me really have to choose a box and stick to it. I guess ideally I’m looking for black hat hashgafa with the ability to go to college and get a decent job (in a secular environment If need be)

FranticFrummie

Thu, Jul 30 2020, 11:33 pm

You'll do best looking for schools in an Anglo area, where there are a lot of American yeshivish types. Beit Shemesh Aleph has excellent schools with the values you are looking for, but more open minded about options after graduation.

Contact Nefesh b' Nefesh and see if you can find out about other areas you might want to look into.

Making a pilot trip and arranging to meet with the potential schools is absolutely crucial. Even then you won't get 100% of the picture, but you'll get a lot more info to think about.

I cannot emphasize this enough: If you want your child to succeed in Israel, start teaching conversational Hebrew NOW!

I made the mistake of not doing this with DD, and she failed in school. We ended up sending her back to the US to finish high school in an English speaking environment, and she's thriving now. If she had been able to make friends in Hebrew, and to understand her teachers better, things would have turned out entirely different.

rivkam

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 12:48 am

You can join a very Anglo community where you will find like minded people and your kids could totally do well in school and have friends. The issue is that they dont quite fit into israeli society because they've basically continued to be in quite an American environment.
If you dont associate with being chareidi, you might want to consider a torani community. Your kids will then have a full education where they can go on and do college as well as learning kodesh at a high level so they could go to yeshiva/full time learning.

heidi

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 1:30 am

Contact "Naava kodesh". Americans who made aliyah helping others find the right community.
I would recommend RBS. They have American type schools. As someone else said, your kids won't become truly Israeli there, but will definitely have lots of friends like themselves. As will you.
Totally disagree with a pp about teaching kids Hebrew before they come.
Your kids will learn Hebrew in school (most schools have ulpan built into the system). The stilted "conversational Hebrew " lessons they might get in America are usually a waste of time and money and don't really prepare them for actual conversational Hebrew.
בהצלחה!

Success10

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 2:13 am

I've wanted to start a thread on this, about families like yours and if aliyah is in their best interest. In my opinion, it's very tricky for the kids. Israeli Charieidi society is very black and white regarding: kollel, tznius, technology and probably other stuff. Yes, RBS A exists and some families do well raising their kids there, but it's a risk raising your kids in a bubble like that, that isn't fully integrated into the rest of Israeli society. The only other open-minded, frum option is Zionist, and if you don't identify with Zionism, I think that could also mess up the kids. Chareidi society is changing regarding kollel vs. working, slowly, as the money dries up, but I'm not sure it's fast enough.

When I was younger, I used to think aliyah was for all Jews, now I'm not so sure.

amother

Royalblue

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 2:41 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I was literally just discussing this exactly with my husband. Our kids are in Darchei too! We’ll never pass as hard core charedim- but really not MO on any level. I’m open to careful use of technology, am OK with my kids learning or working - just want them to be good Jews. The more I think about it, the less possible it seems. I don’t think EY can work for us right now. My oldest is already in middle school. I’m so sad about it. Just validating your question.

amother

Rose

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 3:00 am

RBS has a bunch of schools like this

The only problem with RBS kids is that if the parents don't make an effort the kids tend to struggle to integrate. So learning good hebrew should be priority - because once they get to post high school they need good hebrew - not just conversational.
To many of the RBS girls I know really struggled in college (even though they did really well on the bagruyot) because they didn't have the understanding teachers who helped prepare them with the hebrew/english in mind anymore.

LovesHashem

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 4:41 am

As someone who moved here as a teen and have seen many teens stay on the derech, go off the derech - it's less about you finding a school that actually fully matches your hashkafah (because 90 percent of people don't) it's more about making sacrifices and doing things to fit into to the closest match.

What causes people to go off the derech is when their family disrespects their schools and the rules and the school disrespects the family. The confusion builds up, lying isn't healthy, and it causes kids to go OTD.

In my class there are Israeli families who were modern chareidi and sent to the BY and their kids went off or are very very modern right now. (Like wearing skirts a few inches above the knees and short sleeves). It wasn't just the americans that struggled.

I do believe very strongly this is a major cause.

If you move here you need to be on board with the school rules. If something comes up where you feel you can disagree you need to explain to your children you got a different psak from a Rav.

You need to explain to them that perhaps there's one or two things you don't do at home you need to do at school - and the reason is not because one of them is wrong, or the school makes stupid rules that don't make sense and go on a rant about how they are into conformity and make chumrah into halacha.

- You need to respect the school and calmly say "Wearing x item is against the school rules. It's a chumrah according to our posek but while you are in this school we abide by their rules and their chumrot. You need to respect that" - namely YOU as the parent NEED to respect that

If you spend the whole time being angry at the system - your kids will too. In addition they will think of the system as Judiasm, and get confused with the home and end up not religious altogether.

Some people do go OTD from bad friends, struggles with their families, and mental health.
But a lot of it stems from the confusion and disrespectful attitude towards the system, chareidim, rabbanim, etc.

LovesHashem

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 4:43 am

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

I think it could work with the right attitude. They have very yeshivish yeshiva tichonits - yeshiva high schools which offer learning till 4 or 5pm and bagruyot in the evening.

Many don't even end up going to college after. Some do.

The system will set them up to learn more but it's wonderful you will love and accept your children no matter what they do.

heidi

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 6:29 am

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

Don't mean to derail the thread but Maarava in Mattityahu or Mesivta in RBS would be perfect for you.
Even very frum DL yeshivot are very Zionistic, something I highly doubt you are, coming from Darchei

Success10

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 9:28 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Isn’t army service a must for going to college and entering the work force? How would a single boy ages say 18-23 be able to go to college and start working if he didn’t do army service.

Or is there more rw (black hat) units these days for these boys.

Yes, that is something you need to factor in. He will probably have to do the army. There was a thread on the army a few days ago with tons of great info.

amother

Dodgerblue

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 9:32 am

This is one of the major reasons I don't want to make aliyah at this time. I have siblings there and my parents want to move there and are urging us to go too, but we live in a diverse neighborhood with people of all types and my kids have friends of all types and I despise the Israeli matzav of everyone needing to fit into a box. I don't want my family to be constrained by the shul we daven in or the schools our kids attend. I don't want them growing up in an echo chamber.

I have other reasons too, of course, but this is a big one.

LovesHashem

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 9:40 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

There’s programs nowadays that combines army service in cyber security or an office setting with learning.

amother

Cyan

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 9:52 am

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

I live in Israel, in an extremely diverse neighborhood.
Why does everyone think there is no diversity here?