How do you feel when you leave someone outside?

SixOfWands

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 11:14 am

Chayalle wrote:

I'll probably get lots of disagreement for this...but I still consider a 17 year old to be somewhere between a child and an adult. Not fully grown up yet.

If my 17 year old would travel to a different country, I would be somewhat involved in his plans, and communicate myself with the people involved, to make sure there are no holes and gaps in the trip. I wouldn't leave them to make their own plans and I would talk ahead to the people hosting to make sure it's all working out.

My 21 year old went to Europe this past year, and I heard her out to make sure all was planned. The last minute, one of her flights was cancelled, and B"H she was with responsible people who helped her to get a different connecting flight, etc...No way would I let her just go off on her own, even though she's B"AH very resourceful and capable.

My 17 year olds are kids. But I wouldn't allow them to travel to a distant location where they were dependent upon acquaintances to drive them long distances and put them up.

mommy3b2c

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 11:15 am

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

What are you talking about!!!
That is not the situation at all. Clearly OP cares enough to complain after the fact to us.
If you want to say that she is making up a story, you are making up a story.

Nope. The person who posted made up a story about how the mother is so selfish and doesn’t care enough to hire her kid an Uber. So I responded that if that was the case, these people had more of a reason to be nice to the kid. (And then I wrote that wasn’t the case.) You clearly missed my point.

Rachel Shira

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 11:20 am

groovy1224 wrote:

I don't think there is NEARLY enough information here for anyone to make a judgement. For all we know, this man's wife ASKED this boy if he would be okay until they came back, if he had somewhere to stay, and he said 'oh yeah I'll be fine,' not wanting to impose, and she took him at his word, relieved not to have a stranger staying in her vacation home.

There is just too much we don't know. Maybe they're heartless, or maybe this was just a huge miscommunication.

This sounds very plausible. Sounds like something that could have happened to me as a teenager. I’m not sure why this situation is one that doesn’t require dan lekaf zchus. As everyone has said, there are lots of details missing and lots of possibilities of what could have been going on behind the scenes. I personally don’t think it’s so terrible that he was left outside. Maybe they both wore masks and he sat in the backseat for the drive (and maybe the wife wasn’t too thrilled about that either) but Covid-wise she wasn’t comfortable with him actually hanging out in their house.

amother

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 11:21 am

icedcoffee wrote:

OP, would you mind telling the story from beginning to end instead of dropping details throughout the thread? It's really hard to respond because there are so many missing pieces here.

I think I wrote everything in the op, besides that it was in switserland where there wasn't somewhere else to stay.
What else do you want me to write? That he's a regular hemishe yeshiva boy? That I do care about him? That he can travel with an organised bus till there, but the last leg of the trip didn't work out so had to wait for this friend. What didn't I write?

Blessing1

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 11:22 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I wasn't there, so I don't know exactly. What he told me was, that his friend wanted to give him a bed of one of the kids, but she didn't want to let him stay there at all.
About food, he had some dry crackers packed for the trip for the next few weeks.
I'm not as worried for my son, again, he joked about it. I'm more upset that my neighbor who knows us well is treating my son as a scary stranger.

I don't understand what's going on here, you're not being very clear. You let your 17 year old make travel plans by himself without you making sure that he'll be safe and all details are worked out? Are you involved here at all? Did you communicate with your neighbor to make sure that your son can stay there? Or are you just letting your son travel for days alone without a plan or parental involvement? Why is he traveling alone?

amother

Goldenrod

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 11:25 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

These are the questions I have:

Were there any friends or adults with him on this organized bus, or was it in the plans for a 17 year old to travel all alone in a strange country?

Was a cab or other transportation considered?

Was this neighbor's apartment in an isolated area with no other Jewish people around?

Did your son clearly communicate to this neighbor that he has nowhere to be the entire day?

Why didn't you reach out to the neighbor yourself?

groovy1224

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 11:28 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You haven't provided details of what EXACTLY they had arranged. You said your son and this man were communicating the night before- about what? What was his plan originally? What did the couple agree to do? What did the wife know/think? Did they literally see him sitting on the floor and just wave toodaloo and go on a trip? It's also not clear if this couple is on vacation or they live there, because you said this couple is your neighbor but then you also said that they don't want him staying in their apartment,which makes it sound like they live THERE.

Obviously, you may not know all the details. But all the more reason not to assume these people are evil. You are his mother, so of course you are distressed about what transpired, I would be too. But we can't just assume that these people are pigs.

SixOfWands

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 11:30 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Now I'm confused. You said you sent him with candy because you knew that he would need a ride, but now you're saying that he didn't really need a ride, but the last leg "didn't work out," which sounds more like he missed a connection.

amother

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 11:31 am

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

These are the questions I have:

Were there any friends or adults with him on this organized bus, or was it in the plans for a 17 year old to travel all alone in a strange country?
There were friends on the bus, but continued traveling to a different place.

Was a cab or other transportation considered?
Sure. Public transportation was 4 hours, including 15 min by foot and 4 trains. I couldn't let anyone, do this. I also wouldn't travel like this.
We inquired about a taxi, but couldn't find one.

Was this neighbor's apartment in an isolated area with no other Jewish people around?
No. There are other yidn also staying in that neighborhood. That doesn't help me much.

Did your son clearly communicate to this neighbor that he has nowhere to be the entire day?
Yes.
Why didn't you reach out to the neighbor yourself?
Because he showed me the message that said that he'll take care of him, which I accepted as either talking him in our find a place to stay.

amother

Goldenrod

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 11:42 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

hese are the questions I have:

Were there any friends or adults with him on this organized bus, or was it in the plans for a 17 year old to travel all alone in a strange country?
There were friends on the bus, but continued traveling to a different place.

So in that case, it was known in advance that your son doesn't have plans for the last solitary leg of his journey. How were you considering to get your son to his location when the trip was arranged?

Was a cab or other transportation considered?
Sure. Public transportation was 4 hours, including 15 min by foot and 4 trains. I couldn't let anyone, do this. I also wouldn't travel like this.
We inquired about a taxi, but couldn't find one.

15 min on foot, and 4 hours of a train ride is not that bad, when you have nowhere to be and no food or shelter available. Even more so when you asked the neighbor to travel two hours to get your son to his location.

Was this neighbor's apartment in an isolated area with no other Jewish people around?
No. There are other yidn also staying in that neighborhood. That doesn't help me much.

Why wouldn't the other yiddn be of help? Perhaps they would have opened their home for him?

Did your son clearly communicate to this neighbor that he has nowhere to be the entire day?
Yes.
Why didn't you reach out to the neighbor yourself?
Because he showed me the message that said that he'll take care of him, which I accepted as either talking him in our find a place to stay.

Such a statement is clearly ambiguous. The neighbor could have very well thought that all that is being asked of him is for a ride to the location. If I knew my 17 year old was all alone in a strange place, I would have placed a call to that neighbor to get some reassurances.

BetsyTacy

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 11:51 am

Ultimately, as far as I can tell, this is about a 17 year old going on a vacation.
Not fleeing Nazi occupied Europe
Not fleeing a pogrom.
Not needing to get to a hospital to donate a kidney, or even blood, or to receive treatment of his own.

This was an optional excursion, which was inconveniencing other people on their vacation.

And while I wouldn't be thrilled with giving a ride to someone during covid, if my family were wearing n-95 masks and the boy was wearing some type of mask I could deal with it. Privacy, snooping, damage aside (since you say he is a neighbour and lets assume knows the boy is a paragon of honesty etc), no I would not want to come back to my hotel room/apartment and have to disinfect everything before my family touched it because someone else had been hanging out there all day.

Let the tomatoes fly.

rae

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 12:00 pm

So I’m reading this and trying to put myself in your shoes. As a mother I would be really upset that my child had to go through this. As our kids make their way out in the world, we pray for them to meet nice helpful people. We want people to care and go the extra mile. There are so many times where my kids have been in situations and I’m surprised how people act. Sometimes by how nice and accommodating they are and sometimes when people (or even Family) seems to act indifferent.
It seems like this was a neighbor of yours who knew your son so expectations were higher than if it would’ve been a stranger.
I try to make sure my kids stay safe but unfortunately teens put themselves in situations that even the best mom cant control.
The bottom line is. 1) your son is safe, hopefully he learned a lesson about traveling. You should let him know how bothered you are by the story and what a hard time you’re having getting over his being in a vulnerable situation. 2) if this is a neighbor of yours, ask her why? Be open to hearing her side. Maybe she felt that because this is a place full of Jews, he would be fine. 3) for me, recognizing that HaShem took care of him, even if it wasn’t so comfortable for him, helps. As our kids get older, we lose more and more control.
I would think what I could’ve done better and live and learn. Hopefully your son will too.
As an aside, I hope he enjoyed the rest of his trip.

amother

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 12:07 pm

Blessing1 wrote:

So OP, the story is that it was clearly pre arranged and agreed on that he will be staying at the friend's house and when he arrived there they didn't let him in?

Depends what you call clearly. He said he'll take care of him till he'll be able to bring him to his destination in the evening.

amother

Burlywood

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 12:11 pm

Blessing1 wrote:

So OP, the story is that it was clearly pre arranged and agreed on that he will be staying at the friend's house and when he arrived there they didn't let him in?

I understood that it was a last second thing. The night before (or in middle of the night?) DS messaged OP's (former?) neighbor that he needed a one hour ride each way to get to his location. Neighbor said they had day plans but would drive him there in the evening. DS showed up in the morning and wanted to crash while neighbor and family went out. Neighbor's wife didn't agree. They left for the day and on their return, neighbor drove son.

Blessing1

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 12:13 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Depends what you call clearly. He said he'll take care of him till he'll be able to bring him to his destination in the evening.

So this means that it was not clearly arranged and agreed for him to stay at their house. He'll take care of him can mean many different things.
Who knows if he'd even spoken to his wife about it? You as the mother should've spoken to the neighbor directly to make sure that he'll be staying there. When allowing a 17 year old to travel alone, you must make sure that he has safe and concrete plans. It is a mother's responsibility to make sure her child has exact arrangements before allowing him to travel overseas alone. It's your responsibility to be in touch with the one's hosting him. A 17 year old should not be traveling all alone for days with a group, friends, or supervision.

Last edited by Blessing1 on Fri, Aug 07 2020, 12:21 pm; edited 2 times in total

amother

Powderblue

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 12:13 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If this took place in a foreign country, then my opinion is, you should have made sure your son had everything planned out and every step of the way as well as accomodations planned for. Why didn't you? Don't put this on some random friend who may or may not have fully realized the magnitude of the favor he was being asked, via texting.
This is the kind of thing that requires phone calls, reserved tickets, timetables checked, etc.

amother

Burlywood

Fri, Aug 07 2020, 12:14 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Depends what you call clearly. He said he'll take care of him till he'll be able to bring him to his destination in the evening.

When we talk about it being prearranged, how soon in advance of this date did your DS ask for this? Was it the night before or was this an original part of DS's plan? Is this someone who's still your neighbor or was your neighbor a while ago and moved away?