Dd22 road tripping across country and looks pritzus

amother

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 2:05 am

My dd22 is making a cross- country trip and is sending me pictures. The scenery is breathtaking, while she does not even look frum: leggings, bra-strap showing. She obviously is not censoring what she is showing me. She has always struggled with tznius but this is beyond...Recently a boy she wanted to date,flat-out told her she was not tznius enough for him. It is taking ALL my self control to not say anything. She is supposed to meet a nice frum/chassidish, open- minded boy when she gets to his town and I'm thinking perhaps I should discourage it if she is going to be showing up so un-tznius. Then again, maybe she won't show up that way and I should stay silent. When I see the pics, I say, "it's so good to see you" or " this trip looks so fun." However, my heart breaks because she is so beautiful but obviously she has low self esteem and only values her looks. Her friends are also rebels from large frum families. None of these girls are getting married. They keep a very high level of kashrus, learn, daven ( some), but " good " boys are not interested and yet they seem clueless. I guess I just need to vent. Anything I would say to her about tznius would cause a fight. So I bite my tongue.

salt

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 2:14 am

This sounds hard.
Does your DD know that the way she dresses is the reason that the boy she was interested in didn't want to date her? Maybe a few more experiences like that, and she will decide by herself, that if she wants to marry a frum guy, she will have to change her dress.

banana123

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 2:15 am

I think it's noteworthy that your DD is sending you uncensored photos, even though she knows you don't approve of her tznius. That says a lot about your relationship with her, that she feels like she can be so open with you.

You're doing something right. Keep it up.

Success10

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 2:19 am

I think your daughter is trying to get you upset with her pictures. She is perhaps seeking attention. I would not have her go on any dates until her issues are resolved, probably in therapy. Marrying her off to a frum boy is not the way to deal with this. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 2:21 am

I'm just curious: Does SHE want a "nice frum/chassidish, open-minded boy"? Does she know what she wants?

Good for you that you aren't saying anything! Yes it is very very difficult but it is certainly the right thing to do.

If she does want to marry a frum/chassidish boy, then she is also aware that she may need to go up a level somewhat in Yiddishkeit.

amother

Slategray

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 2:29 am

Success10 wrote:

She doesnt need therapy because she struggles with tznious.
Give me a break.

amother

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 2:30 am

I have recently told her I would pay for a very good therapist because she needs to know who she is and what she wants. I know she is very confused. The boy she really liked told her that he liked her very much but he wasn't comfortable with her tznius. She was so sad. She really started improving a lot over the last month but it seems she has decided she is done with that. I did tell her I had noticed how nicely she looked ( since she told me what happened). I gently said you can't just be tznius to get a boy to date you because it won't work, but it has to be genuine.
Maybe she is trying to upset me. I don't know. She is very immature for 22. She has lots of money from unemployment and is having a big adventure.

chanchy123

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 2:31 am

But why would your daughter want to marry someone who doesn’t approve of her tznius standards. You should be more realistic about suitable matches for her. She should marry someone who is in a similar place frumkeit wise and who accept her as she is. She shouldn’t play dress up for a shudduch, what’s going to happen once she’s married and her true self comes out?

amother

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 2:40 am

The last two boys she dated were "chill" but frum. They both were wanting to move forward but she broke it off both times. She needs many months after dating to recoup and start again. The last one she decided wasn't frum enough (!) and I have tried to tactfully tell her, when you present a certain way, you're going to get a certain type ( which is fine IF that's what she wants).
The thing is, my dd is very smart about people..but not about herself. She lives in NY and I'm in another state so I don't see her often and she is easily upset if she feels judged so...I'm very careful about what I say.

amother

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 2:48 am

Yes, why would she want you date someone who is critical of her? Low self esteem! I've tried to stay out of shidduchim in last year, but when I get calls I do look into them. Her friends have shabbes meals with a certain group of boys and a few boys suggested by shaddchanim have been from this group. But she says they are "friends" and she can't date them. I even suggested she look at MO boys but she said no. I'm just very confused and disturbed.

amother

Brown

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 3:37 am

I grew up modern yeshivish and became MO in HS. I do not cover my elbows and it bothers my mother to no end (I am now over 40 and it still gets to her). She doesn't like that I wear flip flops 8 months a year. Guess what? I dated guys who weren't bothered by it.
and married one, of course.

I still send her pictures all the time. Now that I am married and don't cover "enough" hair to her standards, that bothers her as well. I didn't need therapy because I like to wear short sleeves.
Let her date the guys she wants to date and who want to date her.

chanchy123

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 6:53 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

That’s really a very confusing situation. Sounds like she is still figuring out who she is and what her derech is. Maybe she would benefit from a dating coach of some sort to work out what she wants from a potential partner.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 7:01 am

She may be immature, but 22 is not a "teenager".

She definitely needs to figure herself out, but I don't see any need to pressure her to hurry up. Let her take her time. Some people just need more space and life experience than others.

If she's smart, eventually she will put together cause and effect, and natural consequences.

Kol ha'Kavod for not saying anything! You are a great mama, and wise enough to know how to pick and choose your battles. BTDT with my own DD.

My DD is only 17, and not observant at the moment, but she figured out on her own that she did not like the way people perceived her when she was a bit too casual about her clothing choices. She's not a fan of skirts, but she's ditched the skin tight leggings for more comfortable fitting jeans, and she always wears long sleeves even in the summer. She's got the basic idea, and that's enough for me right now.

When your DD is mature enough to settle down and be comfortable in her own skin, she'll be ready to get into dating. Until then, let her have her adventures. Better she get it out of her system now, than to marry too young, and be miserable later.

Daven, daven, daven! Once they are past bas mitzva, it's all in Hashem's hands anyway. You've already done your part in chinuch, you don't need to do anything else but be there for her and love her.

avrahamama

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 7:58 am

amother [ Brown ] wrote:

The OP even suggested to her daughter that she look into a pool of boys that would be ok with her dress. From what the OP says her daughter wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wants to dress "modern" but marry chasidish.

I have seen a lot of girls like this. They want to live a modern life and wear the modern trendy s-xy stuff....but they want a man that is more conservative and right wing who will be tolerant of their wives more liberal tendencies. It's a tough dynamic and difficult to find or navigate.

One girl I mentor dresed modern and listens to music and movies but has had no physical contact with a boy. She wants a boy that will keep shomer negiah and who is right wing. But she doesn't give off those vibes. Not in her pictures (kissy face, tongue out, pursed lips), not in her dress, etc. But when you know her. She is pure. Kind. Gentle. Loving. Faithful. But the boys she wants don't want the challenge. It's upsetting to see her struggle.

singleagain

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 8:04 am

I don't totally understand this thread. from the title it's understandable you're upset about your daughter's way of dress. But then in the post you talk about her dating issues. And obviously they are connected, but which part is More upsetting? The lack of modest stress? Or the fact that it is affecting her dating?

Also realize 22 is still very young and she might not be ready and willing to date. maybe her mode of dress is easier to present than saying I'm not ready. Even if not, it's still a very difficult situation. And I'm not sure what else to advise.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 8:10 am

avrahamama wrote:

They want to live a modern life and wear the modern trendy s-xy stuff....but they want a man that is more conservative and right wing who will be tolerant of their wives more liberal tendencies.

On the other hand, there have been threads here about Chassidish husbands who want their wives to dress more zexy outside of the house. Shorter skirts, high heels, longer sheitels, full face makeup.

I'm not saying it's right, not at all. I'm just saying that it's not unheard of. Some men really base their self esteem and social standing on having wives who are eye candy.

She needs to be careful of men like that, because if she ever decides to dress more tznius for herself, her DH is not going to be very happy about it.