New COVID-19 cases in Orthodox communities elicit concern

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 5:10 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Wouldn't it be pikuach nefesh? If, for example, Malky tells you she tested positive, then 2 days later, you see Malky at a simcha without a mask.

This is not for us to decide.
In my opinion, it's not a matter of pekuach nefesh because by now everyone is a carrier.

amother

Tan

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 5:11 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

This is not for us to decide.
In my opinion, it's not a matter of pekuach nefesh because by now everyone is a carrier.

In order to be a carrier you need to have an active infection capable of infecting additional people - that is less than 1% of the population of NY right now

amother

Bronze

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 5:16 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

Nope... The person I know of is a very well known wedding singer/choir leader. He traveled to Cleveland to sing at a wedding and caught it there. He has it pretty bad. He's in the hospital now, although not on a respirator (yet).

The person I know lost taste and smell tested positive. He is now walking around with no regard to other people's health and safety.

southernbubby

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 5:34 pm

Apparently a person who thinks that he is infected can travel to a testing site by any means available and he can go wherever he needs to get essential items. He is asked to wear masks and social distance but if he goes into a store where none of this is enforced, nobody realizes that they are standing close to a known infected person. We don't have a quarantine squad that sends a lab technician to private homes to test people so that they don't take a city bus to the testing facility and then back home. We don't have a way to force him to stay home and unless his employer demands those lab results, he doesn't have to tell a soul that he has it. It doesn't appear that the lab is sending the police to check up on him for the next 10 days.
I heard a doctor say that COVID is the newest STD even though it's not transmitted through intimacy because people don't always disclose that they are infected.

Mama Bear

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 5:38 pm

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

He did not catch it there. As a relative, I'll share. He caught at the Minkach chassuna in BP, travelled for Shabbos to Cleveland, got a fever on Sunday evening upon returning. And since he has preexisting conditions, it got a little icky. But he'll be fine bezh.

There's no real way to trace where ppl caught it from. Why does everyone think that all the new cases in brooklyn came from the minkatch wedding? there was one contagious person there?

But anyway I hope he'll be okay and I hope none of the people who daven regularly in his minyan, including my father, have ch'v caught it from him. yiiiikes.

amother

Pearl

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 5:50 pm

I and many of my friends and relatives were at the munkatch wedding. I dont know anyone who caught corona there. A relative of mine just got corona though. Was tested because wanted to travel. Asymptomatic.

(The relative was not at the wedding. He thinks he caught it from a friend who lost sense of smell and taste last week.)

naturalmom5

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 5:58 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Wouldn't it be pikuach nefesh? If, for example, Malky tells you she tested positive, then 2 days later, you see Malky at a simcha without a mask.

Ask your Rav... Its way above my pay grade

amother

Floralwhite

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 6:27 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

Because he routinely checked his antibodies. Also, it couldn't have been Cleveland because he was showing symptoms over there already.

GreenEyes26

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 7:06 pm

Oh, I see. It’s not the total lack of social distancing, mask wearing or common sense during a pandemic that’s causing an uptick in cases, it’s “no travel restrictions”.

Got it. Blame anyone except yourselves.

amother

Honeydew

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 7:17 pm

GreenEyes26 wrote:

Thats a nice inflammatory statement. Why don’t you do a little research on the efficacy of cloth/surgical masks. Or check out where the 6 feet mandate came from. At the end of the day, the countries who managed to keep the disease under wraps did so by restricting travel. The other measures are mostly to make you feel good.

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 7:22 pm

GreenEyes26 wrote:

It's actually everything together. But it's hard to abide to the rules, wear a mask, and SD when foreigners from hot spots are free to travel to NY without quarantining. As long as people will be traveling in to NY without quarantine, they won't be able to stop the spread even with wearing masks and SD. It actually makes more sense that the uptick of cases lately is because of travel and not because of lack of masks or SD. Travel laws are way more important than masks and SD.

PinkFridge

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 7:24 pm

NotInNJMommy wrote:

Our entire law enforcement system is based on people reporting in good faith suspected criminal activity. If people are not that interested in enforcement of a law, it will be clear when they aren’t requesting it be enforced by giving law enforcement the information they need to do their jobs. We do not live in an environment where police are everywhere all the time or even most places at all.
https://www.imamother.com/foru.....e.php
So if someone wants the law enforced, they need to give the relevant information to the authorities to do so like with most cases of government enforcement of anything.

I’m not going to comment on whether this is mesirah or not. I don’t believe one can both refuse to report illegal behavior and criticize the government for not enforcing the law

There are many halachic considerations, including whether the punishment will be disproportionate, if one can get the perpetrator to stop without reporting them, among others.

PinkFridge

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 7:25 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Wouldn't it be pikuach nefesh? If, for example, Malky tells you she tested positive, then 2 days later, you see Malky at a simcha without a mask.

I would still take the time to ask a rav first. And definitely warn Malky.

amother

Gray

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 7:31 pm

Quote:

Sorry, but you are not being responsible if you are travelling to NY/NJ. If you are so concerned then don't go to the tri- state area! Stay home! I think its kind of chutzpah to travel to NY/NJ, and then blame it on NY/NJ when you catch corona there.

I didn't travel to NY to visit family this summer for the first time in 9 years because I would have had to quarantine. I have no issues with following the law.

But the fact is people are coming home with Corona. Not blaming anyone, just pointing out that people in the frum community there are still getting infected just as much (if not more) than people here. At this point the travel restrictions aren't doing anything.

NotInNJMommy

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 7:32 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

There are many halachic considerations, including whether the punishment will be disproportionate, if one can get the perpetrator to stop without reporting them, among others.

I don't disagree.
I'm not advocating mesira.
My point started with responding to someone critical of Cuomo not enforcing quarantining.

One can't ignore the rules, ignore their entire communities breaking the rules, not informally try to stop it in their daled amos, not report it to the government who can and has the responsibility and means to do so, and then blame the government for not enforcing it. The government can't enforce something that entire neighborhoods pretty clearly don't care about.

amother

Honeydew

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 7:44 pm

amother [ Gray ] wrote:

Quote:

Um, no. No theyre not. Chasdei hashem no one in my lakewood neighborhood has gotten it. But if travel without quarantine keeps up then it’s only a matter of time.

southernbubby

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 7:53 pm

NotInNJMommy wrote:

Not just neighborhoods but entire age groups are ignoring these laws. I do agree, however, that the frum community has to work from within to change the situation. If people are putting others in danger, the rabbonim have the power to stop it from within.

amother

Taupe

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 7:55 pm

amother [ Gray ] wrote:

Quote:

It’s like you travel from Baltimore to Lakewood. And then 60 ppl in Baltimore test positive. The community says Lakewood is blamed as the cause.
No it wasn’t (besides both sides at the wedding were not from Lakewood) they traveled to Lakewood and brought it home and then spread it to others.
Most of the time travel spreads it
2 oot families came to Lakewood to make a wedding.
Ppl from Lakewood came to wedding.
It spread from oot to Baltimore.
Stop moving.

amother

Ecru

Tue, Aug 25 2020, 8:16 pm

Mama bear, the reason people are blaming the minkach wedding is because 16 people were officially traced to the wedding by the city. It was a huge crowd indoors, no social distancing whatsoever, no masks and 16 people were traced back there. These people were mingling in the community for a week and exposing others before becoming symptomatic. So, while many people might have caught the virus elsewhere, these people actually caught it there.

The well known singer was at that wedding. Days later, he was in Cleveland. Sunday he became symptomatic. Since incubation period is 2 to 14 days, it was too soon to have been caught in Cleveland. However, the timeline fits the munkach chasuna which he attended and theres documented positive cases.

No one is trying to target the minkach chasuna. But facts are facts. There was a huge crowd there with no ad and positive cases.