What is "Israeli beurocracy"?

amother

Goldenrod

Sun, Aug 30 2020, 7:56 am

Exactly as advertised. What Israelis call a "rosh katan" - someone who's unable to do more than deal with a very narrow problem, showing no initiative. Sometimes a form needs to be filled out in one place, then taken to the post office or bank for payment, then back to the original office for payment. Or you'll stand on line for an hour, only to be told it was the wrong line.

Despite the stereotype, you'll find someone in every office who is helpful, and in general, things here are much better than they used to be. Many government agencies can be dealt with online. So don't worry too much.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Aug 30 2020, 7:56 am

In Israel, the definition of bureaucracy is "If you don't laugh, you'll cry." You learn to be amused by the absurdity of it all. Life here is a Fellini film.

For example, the post office/ Doar.

Your packages will not come to your house. They will often not be at the post office at all.

The other day I had to go to 4 different places to get all my packages. One package depot was at the back of a shekel store. Another was across town in the back of a cell phone store. The third one was in an appliance store, and the fourth one was in a shoe store!

At every stop, I asked why my packages never came to one place instead of being spread out like that. Nobody knew! Not even the central post office knew. They just give you a philosophical shrug, and move to the next customer.

This is proof that Hashem runs the universe. If this country was left up to us mere mortals, it would collapse in a day. There is no way a country could survive under these conditions! Can't Believe It

FranticFrummie

Sun, Aug 30 2020, 8:02 am

On my first trip to Israel, a friend and I wanted to travel from Jerusalem to Tzfat. We needed to know where to catch the right bus, so we asked at the customer service desk.

The girl barely looked up, she just said "Crosstaro", and waved in the direction of the front doors.

I told her that I was an English speaker, and she said "CROSSTARO!" She repeated this a few times, and then proceeded to ignore us. Luckily, someone passing by figured out what was going on, and came to our rescue.

He told us "She was saying it's across the road. Go outside, cross the street, and then look for your bus number."

For the rest of the trip, "crosstaro" became a running joke. LOL

BadTichelDay

Sun, Aug 30 2020, 8:02 am

Long queues, lots of paperwork to fill out (or lots of online forms), endless answering systems on the phone.
But: most real-life clerks, secretaries etc., in my personal experience, are actually okay and quite helpful, sometimes even way beyond the call of duty*, once one's gotten through to them.
I made aliyah more than 10 years ago - I don't recall any outspoken bad experiences with bureaucracy.
As long as one invests enough time and patience, nearly everything works out nicely in the end.

My dh who's been in Israel for most of his life, says that in the old days, it was much worse and customer service of any kind has greatly improved since.

*Edta recent example: A random secretary at my kuppat cholim put in like half an hour's hard work in front of me to get me an ishur for a treatment and she didn't stop until she got it and even physically ran after a doctor to get his signature and speed things up. She could just have brushed me off and said, come back next week when it's ready, but no, she really made the effort and was super friendly on top of it.

Last edited by BadTichelDay on Sun, Aug 30 2020, 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Red

Sun, Aug 30 2020, 8:06 am

FF - usually I get an SMS asking where I would like my package delivered, and I'm given choices - front door, post office,or local store that's a drop-off point. Don't you get those smses?
As for Israeli beauracracy, I've been here a loooong time and I can tell you that there's no comparison to what used to be. With experience you learn to ask the right questions and find the right people to speak to, to avoid the runaround. Be polite but assertive.