S/o When does shabbos begin

amother

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 3:15 pm

S/O from the thread about arriving somewhere after the zman

I always learned and grew up believing that shabbos starts 18 minutes before shkia. Yes those 18 minutes are a buffer so we are not michalel shabbos de'oraysa but they are a derabanan and not to be treated as optional. Obviously in a case of emergency- someone is traveling on a highway and stuck in traffic so will only arrive into the 18 minutes- we allow it, same way we allow a lot of halachos to be broken for the sake of Pikach nefesh etc.

Was I misinformed? It seems on that thread posters are treating the 18 minutes as an optional part of shabbos

amother

cornflower

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 3:21 pm

I live in israel and I betch licht 40 minutes before shkiah and my husband doesn't do melachah from then.
When I'm in the U.S. then I light at 30 minutes or so before.
In our house, 18 minutes is already shabbos.
And we would get out of a car and leave it on the side of the road

SixOfWands

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 3:28 pm

We hold that for me, Shabbat is when I light, be that 1 minute early or 20 (which has never happened). However, DH can choose not to accept Shabbat until the end of the 18 minutes, so he can finish shaving or showering in that time if he needs.

tigerwife

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 3:48 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

That’s what we do as well.

Mommyg8

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 3:50 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Nope. Never heard this. When I was growing up Shabbos started at shkiah. And still does (for those who don't bentch licht).

Mommyg8

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 3:51 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Yes, exactly the same for us.

amother

Smokey

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 3:52 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Right up until shkiah??

amother

Smokey

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 3:53 pm

All those saying until shkiah is fine, are you sure about this?

As far as I know it's pretty bad to do malachos so close to shkia. I don't think tosefes shabbos is optional.

Mommyg8

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 3:58 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

All those saying until shkiah is fine, are you sure about this?

As far as I know it's pretty bad to do malachos so close to shkia. I don't think tosefes shabbos is optional.

I'm absolutely positive it's fine.

SixOfWands

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 4:01 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

All those saying until shkiah is fine, are you sure about this?

As far as I know it's pretty bad to do malachos so close to shkia. I don't think tosefes shabbos is optional.

My husband claims it is, and he's the one who went to yeshiva.

samantha87

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 4:16 pm

Tosefes Shabbos can be 1 minute or one hour - it doesn't have to be 18 or 40 minutes, or whatever. (I'm actualy surprised that no one chassidish has said an hour after shekiyah, or whatever the Rabbeinu Tam time would be.)

amother

Smokey

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 4:17 pm

It is a mitzva -- actually, an obligation -- to begin observing Shabbat each week before it officially starts. This concept is known as "Tosefet (or Tosfot) Shabbat," which means "adding to Shabbat.

https://outorah.org/p/69341/

shanie5

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 4:22 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If thats the case who instituted the 18 minutes and why?

Probably started for all those late people. It's like setting your watch 15 minutes ahead-so you'll be on time when running late!😉😉

amother

Denim

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 5:02 pm

samantha87 wrote:

Unpopular opinion here.

Yes, shabbos really starts much later for chassidim. It starts 72 minutes after shkiah.

But, many years ago the chassdish and litvish gedolim got together and decided it was best to establish a set time for everyone.

They therfore comprised that everyone will take in shabbos the earlier zman - shkiah time (as per the litvish derech), and for MS everyone will follow the chassidish time.

But, today most litvish people that I know do not wait 72. So really, I'm not sure why chassidim have to keep their end of the deal anymore.

Mommyg8

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 5:10 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

I Just checked with dh and he said that tosefes shabbos is clear cut halachah.

I also just checked with DH and he said that tosefes shabbos is just two or three minutes. Also, if someone is running late and goes into those extra minutes they are not actually mechallel shabbos, though they ARE oiver tosefes shabbos.