Please explain about "hakol l'tovati"

malki2

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 6:38 am

This is how I understand it. There is a concept that you have the power to change Hashem’s Will. That means that, even though right now, Hashem is doing what is best for you, you are in effect asking Hashem to change the situation and also somehow work that out so that it should be best for you. Hashem can do that too. But it requires Tefilah and Bitachon.

amother

Hotpink

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 6:48 am

Actually for me the question is even stronger, because we are told to thank Hashem for the bad, (can't remember exact wording), how's that possible?

Here's my understanding, Hashem gives us pain and suffering for many different reasons. (There are some really great shiurim on this). Some examples: as kapora for our sins, to help us improve, to turn to Him for help and make us closer to Him, I think there are more reasons but these I remember off the top of my head. So we thank Him because at the end of the day it's for our own good even if we don't know the reason. For me understanding pain and suffering really helped me as well as learning to be grateful and thanking Hashem for all the good.

ChanieMommy

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 6:57 am

I am so sorry that you have to go through sadness and pain. I wish you all the best.
I do not think it is a contradiction to pray to take away sadness and pain, even if you should assume it is letovati. We also pray for shalom, refua, chochma, bina, mazon, parnassah, kalkala, every day...

I think prayer should be a way to help you take sadness and pain away, just like you pray for refua when someone is ill, and for shalom and mazon in the birkat hamazon... And if others also join you, it might be more powerful and also a consolation in and of itself.

So I wish you that you and all those who support you will manage to take your pain and sadness away in due time. Sometimes it takes time...

amother

Ecru

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 7:19 am

ChanieMommy wrote:

I think the question is why are we praying for change? Why do we pray for health if hashem in his infinite wisdom deemed that for this particular person, at this particular time it is absolutely best if they are sick? How could we possibly know what's best for us more than hashem knows?

Imagine being on a plane and advising the pilot about how to handle the controls. Insane! The pilot went to school and likely has thousands of flying hours. Even more so between us and hashem. If hashem decides it's best for a person to be poor who are we to say that not being poor might be better. We know and understand nothing!

I think what Malki is saying is that we can ask hashem to change what's best for us. Meaning until now hashem in his infinite wisdom said that being poor is best. We daven and ask hashem that he should change things so that being financially comfortable is best. It still seems off to me. I mean, if hashem decides that being poor is best, it seems ridiculous to give hashem another idea or suggestion. Obviously hashem thought of all possibilities and decided that for this person, suffering with poverty was best. Now we're davening that hashem reconsiders and make it so that poverty isn't best.

GramaNewYork

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 8:29 am

"... if hashem decides that being poor is best, it seems ridiculous to give hashem another idea or suggestion. Obviously hashem thought of all possibilities and decided that for this person, suffering with poverty was best. Now we're davening that hashem reconsiders and make it so that poverty isn't best."

Very Happy

Ah,it feels so good to be understood. When I read, "it seems ridiculous to give haShem another idea...," I actually laughed out loud which was good medicine for me.

Thank you all for your support and thank you, ChanieMommy for your kind words. You made me feel taken care of which is like a balm right now. Hug

malki2

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 8:46 am

GramaNewYork wrote:

This is correct. And it is a great Madreiga for a person to say, Hashem knows what is best for me and I will not ask for anything. If a person has a disease she will say, Thank you Hashem for this disease. I know that somehow this is the best for me.

But most of us are not on this Madreiga. Even though we may believe that Hashem knows what is best for us, we really want something else. So Hashem made a new reality that we can ask Hashem for that different thing. And not only are we asking for that thing, but we are also asking Hashem to make it as if it will now be best for me as well, even though it was not according to Hashem’s “original” plan.

PinkFridge

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 8:47 am

Know that people davened for you today and will daven for you. So much of tefillah is in the plural, to include everyone. The kavana is, for ourselves and others, Hashem, whatever lessons and growth we're supposed to take from this situation, let what we've experiences so far be sufficient, and give us new resources that we will do our best to use for good and Your glory.

ellacoe

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 10:23 am

There is a school of thought that Hashem wants our tefilos, and we are given challenges in order to daven and overcome them. Look at Soraoh and Rochel Hashem wanted their t'filos. They davened and were blessed with children. Some say Hashem was waiting to hear from them.

Some people take their challenges to the next level and use them for good things. (Victor Frankl, Edith Eger both wrote extensively on this.)

There is also a view on illness that Hashem is giving us an opportunity to rise and do mitzvah. If you take into consideration how many mitzvos a sick person causes to be done. Illness can set off a chain of mitzvos, people are davening, bringing food, making arrangements, doing bikur cholim, helping with meals and children. The amount of mitzvos that the illness brings about can be huge.

There is a great book The Secret to Miraculous Salvations, that gives some insight into the concept of davening for a Yeshua.

silverlining3

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 11:04 am

I read in Yiddish and will try to translate to the best of my ability.

When Hashem created the world he decided, from his own will, to limit and tie himself to laws. If makatrgim will come with strong tanis he has to listen to them, and can't help. And if sneigrim will come with strong tanis he has to listen to them, and brings shefa. That's called hanhagas hamishpat.
But Hashem can change over, every minute, and rule by something called hanhagas hayuchid, which means, he himself rules. When he rules by that hanhaga, He is not tied to neither the kateiger nor the saneiger, just by his yasud, that's rachmanus. And does that cuz His deep ratzon is to be a rachamim.

So if that is truly his ratzon, why can't He always rule by his hanhaga? That's because Hashem treats us according to our thoughts and feelings. Comes out, that through our panimias thoughts and feelings of amunah we can be mashpia on the hanhagas from this world.

How does this work? Hashem awakens his yasodas'diga hanhaga from rachamim gadolim, hanhahas hayuchid, when we think and truly believe that Hashem wants to treat us lifnim mashiras hadin and that he is ein oid milvado.

I hope I'm making sense and being helpful.

Eta-in Jewish history we see time and time again where rachamim gadolim weighed over and the Jews saw many miracles, even they weren't worthy of it, and no navi was able to bring enough zchusim for them.

Last edited by silverlining3 on Wed, Sep 02 2020, 11:29 am; edited 1 time in total

silverlining3

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 11:07 am

ellacoe wrote:

There is a great book The Secret to Miraculous Salvations, that gives some insight into the concept of davening for a Yeshua.

My post is literally word for word from this book, in Yiddish.