What can frum people do?

dancingqueen

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 6:06 pm

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

I work with non Jewish people and they have very different ideas about what to spend money on. They are willing to shell out for fancy vacations in exotic places, new fancy (IMO) car leases, tons of new clothing/shoes (especially exercise clothing) organic food from Whole Foods, newest model phones.... most jewish people I know would not spend on these kinds of things unless they have a lot money.

The lifestyle you’re describing is an upscale one. Your non-Jewish friends have money.

amother

Pink

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 6:07 pm

[quote="amother [ Mustard ]"]I live out of town. Housing is not necessarily cheaper- just the houses are smaller and older. At least where I live. Yeah you can buy a house for $200,000 but it only has 3 bedrooms, no master bathroom and it has not be remodeled for the past 30 years.

I think this is the problem. When people are unhappy without a master bathroom. A master bathroom was not the standard in the US, according to google, until 1980.

finprof

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 6:38 pm

Mustard, OOT can mean many places. Where I am $220K got us a remodeled 4 bed 3 bath (and yes there is a mater bath). There are plenty of small communities across the country with only 1 shul and a community-style school where you can find affordable housing for larger families. It's a different lifestyle that you get in a city but it is possible.

naturalmom5

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 6:55 pm

OP..as a fellow BT , that probably has a lot more life experience than you, I'd say the following

1.. All the families I spent Shabbos by in R Avigdor Millers Flatbush in the 70s 80s used OUD
They were waaaay more sincere than anyone I know in Lakewood/ Monsey today.
It makes a big difference on my grocery bill.
PY.. Get a bread machine and bake. Or rely on the Rama, if you are Ashkenaz

2. Mikva.. I was always very honest with them, if you dont have it, you dont have it. BT families are at a tremendous disadvantage, in that we dont have the financial, social, psychological support from parents and siblings, unless you come from a wealthy open minded family that isnt hostile to yiddishkeit.

3..If you go to a Rov who has a lot of experience dealing with BTs, and understanding reality, he will usually encourage BC..
If you were raised in a family of 2 , and have no frum relatives , you dont have the resources ..
I am by no means generalizing and I truly admire those large families that succeed.
However, I have seen many BT couples have 10 children then crash and burn
I have also been close to BTs that have done a wonderful job with 3 children

4..Tuition. Get scholarships whenever you can or go to states that offer vouchers..

5. Clothing .. I bh have always got beautiful tznius clothing in Serendipity or other consignment shops
Fair disclosure. I dont have daughters .
My sons are much more interested in electronic toys and computers than clothes..

6. Yom Tov..I am fortunate to have good friends invite me. Or I make very simple meals

Reality

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 7:18 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

OP..as a fellow BT , that probably has a lot more life experience than you, I'd say the following

6. Yom Tov..I am fortunate to have good friends invite me. Or I make very simple meals

It is really rude to save yourself money on the backs of other people's yom tov bills!

Reality

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 7:31 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

Is it my fault if they beg and plead for me to come
If I decline the invitation or offer to bring side dishes or meat they get very offended

No it's not. But your suggestion can be taken as "be a shnorrer. Get yourself invited out and don't reciprocate because I only make really simple meals".

amother

Cyan

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 7:44 pm

Reality wrote:

No it's not. But your suggestion can be taken as "be a shnorrer. Get yourself invited out and don't reciprocate because I only make really simple meals".

That is soooooo not nice and rude.

Oy.

Please, if you are a guest at someone’s Yom Tov table you are very welcome and not at all a shnorrer!

When I was single or newly married with just a few kids we were invited out a lot. Now we have a big family and we stay home and host. We enjoy our guests, no expectations of reciprocity.

amother

Cyan

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 7:48 pm

Reality wrote:

Not really. This poster can dish it out so I assumed she can take it too!

Huh?

How was her post in any way offensive to anyone?

Maybe not all her advice applies to everyone’s situation. You take what works for you.

No need for nasty slams and calling someone a shnorrer for getting invited out for YT meals.

Reality

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 7:53 pm

amother [ Cyan ] wrote:

I only quoted part of her post. In the beginning of the same post she posted something really not nice about the Lakewood community. As she does all the time.

Please.

Reality

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 7:56 pm

amother [ Cyan ] wrote:

Of course not. But having the mindset to save yourself money by getting yourself invited out is shnorrish. And never hosting because it's too expensive.

My point is it doesn't belong on a list of ways to cut back on spending.

amother

Cyan

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 8:03 pm

Reality wrote:

It makes perfect sense to me.

If you can’t afford fancy yom tov meals you can make simple ones.

This whole idea of hosting where I invite you to show off my fancy table and in turn you invite me to show off your fancy table is foreign to me. Not Simchas YT at all.

Reality

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 8:07 pm

amother [ Cyan ] wrote:

That's not what she said. She wrote she saves herself money by getting invited out for meals. She didn't provide any explanations.

By itself that doesn't sound nice at all!

amother

Cyan

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 8:20 pm

Reality wrote:

That's not what she said. She wrote she saves herself money by getting invited out for meals. She didn't provide any explanations.

By itself that doesn't sound nice at all!

She said she has friends who invite her, or she makes simple meals.

Nowhere did she imply that she imposes herself on them or begs them to invite her.

amother

Gray

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 8:21 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

Is it my fault if they beg and plead for me to come
If I decline the invitation or offer to bring side dishes or meat they get very offended

Where do u find such nice friends?
It’s been years I’m not invited, not by family, not by anyone!
Maybe because I have a large family? I’ve always contributed either with a main dish or money.

Reality

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 8:24 pm

amother [ Cyan ] wrote:

She said she has friends who invite her, or she makes simple meals.

Nowhere did she imply that she imposes herself on them or begs them to invite her.

Sorry to beat a dead horse but why include this on the list? It is obvious the inference is get yourself invited out! It saves you $$$

amother

Cyan

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 8:28 pm

Reality wrote:

Sorry to beat a dead horse but why include this on the list? It is obvious the inference is get yourself invited out! It saves you $$$

Yes, why beat a dead horse.

You made a not nice comment that’s not only offensive to her, it’s offensive to anyone who’s a guest at someone else’s Yom Tov table.

Just acknowledge it and move on.

Reality

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 8:32 pm

amother [ Cyan ] wrote:

I'm sorry my comment upset you. It was not meant for people who get invited out for meals. It was meant for people who purposefully get themselves invited out to save themselves money!

saw50st8

Wed, Sep 02 2020, 9:24 pm

I think that the biggest problem is tuition is such a huge chunk of everyone's salaries, even well paying professions, that there is very little else you can do. Even if you do everything very frugally, it's really challenging.

I do think that schools should be more flexible with uniforms. My kids school has more of a dress code than uniform (boys have to wear polos and pants in certain colors, girls shirts and skirts in certain colors) which is very easy to find for cheap at old navy and childrens place. Skirts I get from a local frum woman for $10-15 each.

I know a lot of frum people who lease their cars (we do not, I don't understand why you would throw away that money).

We (pre-covid) hosted a lot of people for shabbos lunch. We loved to welcome new people to the community and invite people. It's expensive feeding other people!

It's expensive to be Jewish. But it's valuable beyond measure.