Serious high school problem- please recommend a school

amother

Mon, Sep 07 2020, 11:03 pm

amother [ Gray ] wrote:

I'm sorry to say that it's not really relevant where she wants to go because she will probably end up where she gets accepted!
I'm really not trying to be mean but the more she's flexible and the less likely she will be disappointed!
Most high schools in Lakewood are great, the curriculum is very similar in all schools and you will find good girls(and other kinds!) everywhere!!
Daven that she should find good friends wherever she goes!

Of course she can express which schools she would want to go to.
I know it’s not like choosing a camp but she has a right to feel good about herself and be in a school that she’s comfortable with.
I’m trying to help her and figure out what the options are.

amother

Mon, Sep 07 2020, 11:07 pm

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

I apologize as I seem to have insulted your sensibilities.
I initially responded to OP stating that I am not in Lakewood and that I don't know your community but that she sounds like she has beautiful middot and she should be very proud of her. I provide some ideas which may or may not be helpful, as I don't know the community. I was asked where I live by naturalmom5.
I once again apologize if I was not supposed to answer.

Thank you for realizing that she is a good girl. I know that’s what matters most in life and I tell this to her all the time.

amother

Sapphire

Mon, Sep 07 2020, 11:07 pm

I'm a teacher.
Have you had her evaluated?
Students that I've had with similar issues have been mildly dyslexic.

I live oot. Where I teach, oot yeshivish, there's no way she'd be skipped through the system and landing in 8th grade without being evaluated and receiving interventions.
Had the school never suggested any remediation or plan?
Personally, I'd try to get her helped. She'll be more successful wherever she goes if her issue is pinpointed and the help is what she actually needs (I.e. Wilson, not just random Title I).

You sound like a great mother for understanding where she's holding.

amother

Mon, Sep 07 2020, 11:18 pm

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

She’s been evaluated more times than I can count. How I hoped I would have a diagnosis so we would know how to work with her.
The only thing an occupational therapist once mentioned is that it seems like she has dysgraphia. She doesn’t have dyslexia.

amother

Pumpkin

Mon, Sep 07 2020, 11:20 pm

Lakewood girls high school is a very challenging situation. This year there were 60-70 girls without schools last week and schools couldn't open on time. It's not the schools being difficult but the rapid growth of the town and simply not enough new schools opening fast enough and a shortage of seats.
The best thing you can do for your daughter at the moment is to prepare her that she may not have a choice and may only get into one school. And keep telling her that all the schools are good, even the smaller and newer ones so when she gets in somewhere she's more ok with it. Also, remind her that acceptance is not a reflection of the girls, often of siblings or connections etc. Great girls (and your daughter sounds like one even if not academic) have a hard time too. The more emotionally prepared she is the easier it will be. Honestly, all the schools in town are decent and if each one was the only choice it would be an ok one.

Fyi, the vaad is very specific in the application process about applying to at least 4 schools excluding bais shaindel if you apply there too. They will send out a letter with instructions around application time, usually Jan/Feb.
Hatzlocha! I hope all goes smoothly and painlessly and she thrives wherever is best for her.

naturalmom5

Mon, Sep 07 2020, 11:52 pm

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

Greater Teaneck area. (Teaneck/Bergenfield/Englewood/Fair-lawn.....)
EVERYONE gets into a school. It might not be there first choice, but usually it is. There are tracks at every level. The kids who have the most difficulties getting in are the ones who lack nice middot and bullying other kids and a chutzpadick to teachers. Students who don't submit homework also have a greater challenge. On the day that accept letters go out, everyone gets in somewhere out of their 3 choices. The principals barter to break up mean girl cliques and they may each take 3 "problem kids" to share the wealth, but the elementary principals manage expectations in advance encouraging parents to submit applications to where they can get in. There was a faux pas last year, but everyone felt terrible and it was resolved very quickly.

Yes, there are really wonderful schools there.
However, Lakewood schools are 5-7 a year.
And your schools are close to 20k..

zohar

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 12:27 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Because of the space issue she wouldn’t get in if she does not have good grades.

Grades aren't really that high of a concern for the highschools when considering an applicant. Don't let her think that her grades is what is holding her back. The truth is, every school is ok with a number of weaker students. The problem is a lack of space.
The highschools first accept siblings. It seems like your daughter is the oldest, so that will be an issue.
Next, daughters of alumni. OP, are you from Lakewood? Are you an alumni of any the local highschools?
After that, well connected people. Maybe even people with money. Some who may offer monetary help open another class to enable the school to accept more kids.
All the above students will get accepted if they are generally all around good girls. Grades barely come into the equation.
Unfortunately, there will be lots and lots of girls who will not be accepted initially. They will good girls. From good families. Some will even be top students. Unfortunately, you do need to prepare for the eventuality that she doesn't get in on the first round. Please don't allow her to think that if she was somehow "smarter" or struggled less academically, she would have gotten in easily.
I bench you that your daughter should get into a school appropriate for her easily. And may you see continued yiddishe nachas from her.

ChanieMommy

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 6:38 am

What worries me is that you say she feels she has to put on an act to hide her academic performance.
That is not a good place to be in, and likely it will become worse in highschool, because the gap risks to become bigger and perhaps less easy to hide...

so this whole setup does not look very healthy to me. first, she should learn not to be self-conscious and to ask questions when she needs it, until she really understands. If the teachers find it is too hard in class, she might need remedial lessons.

But I would not allow a child to go through school with such an attitude. First it undermines their self-confidence. Second, it teaches them a wrong lesson for life: it is not a good idea to act as if you knew when you don''t know! That's not what smart people do. Smart people are not afraid to admit they don't know or to ask questions. That's how they learn. You should really bring this home to her. There is a passuk in pirkei avot about that: shiva d'varim be golem ve shiva be chacham... You might want to study this passuk intensely with her.

Also, if she has some kind of problem (dislexia, discalculia, bad memory, concentration problems, etc.) it's important to address the problem as soon as possible, not to paint over it... If you act as if the problem did not exist, it will likely come to the foreground more and more while the years are passing by.

Finally, I am a bit taken aback by the mentality that seems to prevail in your community and that crept into your daughter's head, when you equate the newer, smaller schools to second rate...

What does this mean? And if there are schools for academically more proficient girls and other schools for less proficient girls, why does your daughter think she would benefit from putting on an act in a more proficient school rather than being herself in a school for girls like her, who are less proficient on an academic level. It breaks my heart to hear this all... There is so much wrong with this whole attitude...

ChanieMommy

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 6:45 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

If she has disgraphia, there may be tools out there to help her... like starting writing on a computer rather than by hand... or first recording what you want to say and then write it down, taking the time it takes...

Notsobusy

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 7:05 am

zohar wrote:

Op, everything Zohar posted here is true. The best thing you can do for your dd is to start explaining the lack of space situation to her now. I know nice, smart girls from wealthy families who didnt get into school until August. Its horrible and so unfair to the girls, but it doesnt seem to be changing in the near future.

There are more girls than there is available space. The classes sizes are already too big. The biggest favor you can do for her is to let her know all this and that if shes not accepted right away it has nothing to do with how smart she is.

amother

Apricot

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 9:27 am

/// She wants to be like everyone else and not have to go to a second choice school.
If she were academic, Bais yaakov would have been our choice. I think Bais Shaindel is our second choice but we have no connections there at all and her grades certainly won’t speak for her.
So what are we left with?//

I am baffled.

Like everyone else? What does that even mean? There are hundreds of girls and not all of them go to the 2 schools you mentioned. When you apply for high school, the 2 schools you mentioned are not even counted toward the total of schools you must apply to in order for the vaad to help you.

Bais Yaakov is full of siblings and other must-takes. Its your first choice??!! This makes no sense to me. Even if your daughter had amazing grades, her chances of getting in are slim. Maybe she will get in, who knows, but only those 2 and nothing else??

Why would BY even be your first choice? Besides for it "sounds good?" Their style certainly doesn't cater to her learning difficulties and developing individuality isn't a strong point there. How could it be educationally impactful for her?? The academics aren't for her and not much else to help her develop what she could be. I mean, bragging rights don't go THAT far.

And what does a second-choice school even mean? Maybe your daughter is nice, but she sure could work on her middos. Seriously, you both look down on any other school besides BY and BS as second rate? What is up with your elitist attitude?! There are wonderful girls in all schools. If you can't have those 2, what are you left with??? So you just discounted a couple hundred Lakewood girls in a second!? Good frum girls who daven, dress tznius, whose fathers work and/or learn - just like yours. Your daughter may be amazing but she isn't unique. Plenty other girls are just as good and attend the other schools.

So beyond disgusted. Your serious high school problem has nothing to do with school selection, and everything to do with a serious attitude problem.

Chayalle

Tue, Sep 08 2020, 9:42 am

OP I haven't read thru every post here so I may be repeating what everyone else said, but....my personal recommendation to you (as a Lakewood parent with two daughters out of high school and one heading there a year after yours B"EH) would be two-fold:

1. Forget about your daughter's academics. Focus on finding choices that would work for your daughter from a social perspective, and apply to those choices. All of them.

and

2. Enlist your daughter's principal in helping you define those choices. Get her on your side. It's the best way to give your daughter the best shot at possibly getting into one of those choices.

OK, now I'll say why these are my recommendations.

1. You think every school - even BY - is made up exclusively of top students? And even if your DD won't get into BY because they take new students who are tops academically (and then have their younger siblings who aren't...which is why their process makes no sense....) there's no reason for her not to go to a school that makes sense for her.

2. the principals who to to bat for a student usually get somewhere. If not first choice, then second choice. I have a cousin who got into BY because they said they never had a principal who put up such a fight for a student. I have a niece who got into BK because her principal put herself out there for her. My niece got into Oros (but chose not to go) because her principal spoke on her behalf. Ask them, get them to work for you.

BTW - I have a relative whose child sounds alot like your DD. In her case - she happens to be what they call pre-dyslexic. She's a bright, engaging, fun-loving social girl who does not perform academically. She absolutely THRIVED in the high school she attended, because they recognized her strengths and put them to good use. (She was Chessed head, she volunteers for Chai Lifeline and other places, she's the teacher-coordinator's right hand...so what if she can barely pull a C in certain subjects.) (She happens to be more "cool" so the school she went to would not necessarily work for your DD....but the point is, doesn't matter, high school is not just for those who shine academically.)

And my last reason

3. Where you send your daughter is likely to be the place you will send all your daughters, if you have other girls. So you want to send her to a place that will work for your family. Otherwise you will face this nightmare again and again.