Can someone in Israel explain the lockdown

sidewalkchalk

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 4:49 pm

DrMom wrote:

I certainly don't have respect for such rabbanim.

But that has nothing to do with emunah in Hashem.

Its hard when Hashem's representatives seem so wrong, hard to know what to think.

There's a fundraising effort for a family where someone died of corona that they are lying and saying they died of something else - because they on their leader's advice didn't follow guidelines . Like how can you not make you wonder what that says about frum jews?

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 4:50 pm

sidewalkchalk wrote:

I am struggling to understand all the people who are not being compliant.

More than one neighborhood in Yerushalaim has chadarim opening tomorrow.

There were parks over yuntiv with no one in masks.

Meanwhile my friend's husband is in hospital on a respirator.

How can I understand this?

You cant understand this. The schools and parks and places that are not keeping to any regulations believe they are above the law and above all of that, but they are not. And it is terrible how they are acting as if nothing is wrong at all.

southernbubby

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 4:51 pm

sidewalkchalk wrote:

A friend who is struggling with her emuna and bitachon is actively being shaken up by rabbaim / rebbes who don't insist their followers wear masks, or even tell them to open schools anyway.

I don't know how to answer her.

I want to send angry anonymous letters to magazines. Will that help? What can help?

She should find a safe community. They do exist but they are more modern. The magazines are probably getting hit with tons of letters but I think that they see too much emphasis on the virus as being bad for business and the advertisers want people to relax and spend.

amother

Linen

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 4:52 pm

sidewalkchalk wrote:

Unless he died quietly at home, this story doesn't make any sense.

amother

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 4:55 pm

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

The super strict lockdown worked very well. The problem was that they reopened way to quickly without enough precautions in place. And people didn't take the precautions that were there, seriously.

But, this quasi lockdown is a joke. Most people are still going about their business as usual. They're talking about tightening restrictions further, but I fear it will be too late; people have already internalized that they don't need to take it seriously this time.

What's your definition of "very well"? It didn't work well. If you were planning on lowering the spread, then you didn't need to do that with a total lockdown, as you see here. If you were planning on eradicating the virus, you didn't.

Basically, you're ensuring that you inconvenience the entire society and economy as long and drawn out as humanly possible, while also doing nothing to actually save your society from getting covid. Because they will. It's as simple as that.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 4:55 pm

sidewalkchalk wrote:

Know that not all rabbanim are perfect and that sometimes they also make mistakes. FULL STOP. Nobody except hashem is perfect. The rabbanim who said not to wear masks or to keep schools open, they made mistakes. And unfortunately, they most probably have blood on their souls now. Nothing to do but move on and find other more trust worthy rabbanim.

amother

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 4:58 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

No one is acting like nothing is wrong, but Israel has had some of the strictest responses in the world to Covid, and ultimately? It didn't stop it. As soon as you opened up again, boom. It came back, same as before. People are tired of the blaming and the warning and the scare/fear tactics, because there's only so long you can tell people to be terrified of something they're not all that scared of.

amother

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 5:00 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

"Blood on their souls". Hyperbole, much?

Here in the US, if we don't have schools, none of us can get to work. And many of us HAVE to work to put bread on the table. So how, as a Rabbi, would you advise any of us? Just say that we should rely on the kind donations of you, personally? Are you going to support my family? Or the other 400 families that send to our school?

Schools needed to open, they need to open, for society to function.

amother

Linen

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 5:00 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Can I ask what your intent was in opening this thread?

You seem to have an agenda here and aren't really interested in people's responses. Even though it doesn't sound like you live in Israel so it doesn't affect you at all anyway.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 5:01 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The problem was not the first lock down. That helped a lot. It was how fast everything was opened. Things should have opened much much slower and then the rate at which eople were getting covid would have been much much slower.

And many people are scared of the virus and many are not. And there in lies the problem.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 5:02 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Do yo uthink Israel is any different? SChools need to be open here as well so that people can go out to work.
But then what is the answer? Just open up the world again and have everyone get sick (and many die) and forget about doing anything to try to slow this down until there is a vaccine?

Elfrida

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 5:04 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You said earlier that you didn't want to start arguments, but you seem to have come with a definite agenda to point out that the lockdown didn't and won't accomplish anything. The previous lockdown was effective. If people fully comply, this one will also be effective, and the opening up needs to be better managed. We know it's not perfect, and are very aware of the problems that accompany it. Do you have any other constructive suggestions?

sidewalkchalk

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 5:04 pm

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

Unless he died quietly at home, this story doesn't make any sense.

I'm being a little vague on purpose because I'm honestly worried about lashon hara and don't want to be resposible for the family not getting the tzedaka needs they deserve. Enough to say, the tzedaka appeal going around is hiding the fact they died of corona, saying they died of something else.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 5:08 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

OP do you live here IN israel?

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 5:08 pm

sidewalkchalk wrote:

All Ill say is that its pretty awful to lie to get tzedaka under false pretexts. Sad

Teomima

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 5:27 pm

OP, like others have said, you seem to have a specific agenda by opening this thread and aren't actually curious about our lockdown at all.

That said, I will add one important point, one reason why people who push for so-called "herd immunity" totally miss the point of why, at this point, that is an unreal option:

Our health care system is getting totally overwhelmed. The point of a lockdown is to slow the rate of infection. Nothing, not lockdown, not mask compliance, and not herd immunity, will stop this virus at this point in time. The last pandemic took two years and there's no reason to realistically expect this one to be any shorter. The best we can do is slow the rate of infection so we don't overwhelm our health care system, leading to unnecessary and pointless deaths and overworked and overtired health care workers.

So we must wear our masks and practice social distancing and obey restrictions and lockdowns and hope and pray we are doing enough to keep the world going long enough for there to be a cure and/or real herd immunity, if such a thing even exists with this virus.

As for the problems with our lockdown here in Israel, where us Israelis actually live, yes we know it is imperfect. Yes we know it negatively impact our economy (thanks, we're there ones sitting at home instead of working, we're the ones homeschooling our kids, we know, thank you). But we also read the news and see the climbing numbers and hear about the hospitals running out of room and watch our friends and family who are doctors and nurses and see them terrified and burnt out and desperately want to keep our aging parents who were haven't hugged since March as safe and healthy as humanly possible. This is life and death for us, for all of humanity. There is no room for agendas.

amother

Denim

Mon, Sep 21 2020, 5:36 pm

[quote="amother [ Linen ]"]The super strict lockdown worked very well. The problem was that they reopened way to quickly without enough precautions in place.”

This is what I don’t understand- how did the lockdown work? Did corona die? Disappear? Vanish? If so then why and how does it “comes back” when we open stores etc? To me this is mind boggling. I have asked this plenty times and noone has an answer. Everyone is just parroting what they read online
Should we be careful with handwashing, hygiene,wearing a mask when ill, not stand on top of each other when talking? I say yes, for any germ or virus. But lockdown? I don’t think we are gaining anything.
I just heard of a couple in their 80’s who have been strict with quarantine since march, masks, gloves sd, no visits from or to family and last week the mr lost his sense of smell.
We don’t know a darn thing.