If something is pareve why is it important to specify equip.

amother

Copper

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 1:31 pm

Some people hold that onions are davar charif. So if there are sautéed onions that were cut with a meaty knife in the pareve rice, some people wouldn’t put cheese on top. So they gotta know.

Or if it’s cookies baked in a meaty oven, some people hold that they can’t dunk them into hot dairy coffee, or warm them up in a dairy oven. So they gotta know, too.

NotInNJMommy

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 1:33 pm

In hilchos kashrus, there's an idea of "nat bar nat" or "nosein taam bar nosen taam". It has to do with the transfer of "taam" or taste via pots when cooking food. There may be some limits on how food can be eaten if it were prepared in one kind of pot and served with foods of another kind (ie,. dairy vs. meat)

https://www.etzion.org.il/en/n.....-pots

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 1:37 pm

Pareve food made in a meat pot can't be eaten together with milk, even though it's pareve. Similarly, you can't have DE Oreos together with meat, though of course you can have them afterwards.

I was really frustrated when the OU dropped the DE designation. I keep a kosher kitchen; I know what it means. But maybe a lot of people don't?

amother

Copper

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 1:42 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

But if something is pareve, cooked in a fleishig pot or cut with a fleishig knife, then wouldn’t that thing no longer be pareve? Wouldn’t anyone who ate that food item then be fleishig?

No!!

SixOfWands

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 1:44 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

But if something is pareve, cooked in a fleishig pot or cut with a fleishig knife, then wouldn’t that thing no longer be pareve? Wouldn’t anyone who ate that food item then be fleishig?

Not necessarily. AIUI, something that is parve, not sharp (eg onions) cooked in a meat or milk pot remains parve, but cannot be eaten with the other type of food. So if I bake a parve cake in a milk pan, I can't put it on the same plate as my turkey sandwich. But I don't need to wait 3 hours to enjoy it, either.

NotInNJMommy

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 1:50 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

But if something is pareve, cooked in a fleishig pot or cut with a fleishig knife, then wouldn’t that thing no longer be pareve? Wouldn’t anyone who ate that food item then be fleishig?

If something parve were made in/with clean meat (or dairy) utensils, it would stay parve, but might not be able to be eaten with dairy (or meat).

The food is still parve and would not make someone fleishig (or milchig--although the consequences of that are negligible by comparison).

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 8:04 pm

My notes according to the Ashkenazic view:

Nat Bar Nat

Ben Yomo:
1. Want to cook pareve noodles in milchig pot to eat with meat sauce -- assur
2. Cooked pareve noodles in milchig pot already:
A. Can serve/put in fleishig bowl but can’t cook in that fleishig dish
B. Cannot eat with fleishigs
3. Accidentally mixed pareve noodles from milchig pot with meat sauce -- muttar to eat

Aino Ben Yomo:
1. Want to cook pareve noodles in milchig pot to eat with meat sauce
A. If a fleishig or pareve pot available, use that
B. If not, you can
2. Cooked pareve noodles in milchig pot already:
A. Can serve/put in fleishig bowl and can reheat in that fleishig dish
B. Muttar to eat/cook with meat sauce
3. Accidentally mixed pareve noodles from milchig pot with meat sauce -- muttar to eat

Applying this to D.E.

Have to assume D.E. designation is ben yomo, so
1. Can’t put DE orange juice on chicken l’chatchila
2. If already cooked DE orange juice on chicken, can eat
3. Can eat DE orange juice baked in pareve cake for dessert at fleishig meal
4. Can use same oven to bake the cake with D.E. ingredients as the chicken but not at the same time

amother

Aubergine

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 10:37 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

Pareve food made in a meat pot can't be eaten together with milk, even though it's pareve.

According to some, if not all, sephardim, this is okay even lechatchila, for an eino ben yomo pot for sure. (Ask your LOR of course.) Not sure about this for ashkenazim.

cbsp

Tue, Sep 22 2020, 11:14 pm

In case this helps, here are pages 99-100 from the Sefer The Kosher Kitchen :

And for the amother wondering why the DE designation isn't used - one reason is because it gives latitude to the company to change their process or formula on the fly without needing to alert the mashgiach ahead of time if the ingredients are all already approved.

(I had also heard that someone with a severe milk allergy had a bad reaction to a DE product, the optics of which looked bad for a pareve status despite being technically not halachically dairy.)

Teomima

Wed, Sep 23 2020, 7:52 am

I grew up with three sets of pots, pans, cooking, and baking equipment and still to this day the vast majority of the equipment in my kitchen is labeled pareve. I only cook items that actually have meat/dairy in milchig/fleishig equipment, everything else is cooked/baked pareve. That way there's never any issue what it can be eaten with. So, for example, I can cook a pot of noodles and those same noodles can be eaten with chicken one meal, and with cheese the next. It seems the most simple and obvious to me and I remember being shocked when I found out most kosher kitchens don't function the same way.

amother

Maroon

Wed, Sep 23 2020, 7:57 am

Teomima wrote:

I didn't grow up like that but DH did! We have tons of pareve stuff now.

amother

Copper

Wed, Sep 23 2020, 8:12 am

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

But what do you do about parve things in the oven, when you don't want to cover them? Like roasted vegetables, potatoes, etc?

If you’re roasting them in a fleishig oven for a fleishig meal with meat also in the oven at the same time, no prob.
If you’re roasting them in a fleishig oven for a pareve or dairy meal, make sure there’s no meat in the oven at the same time.

amother

Wine

Wed, Sep 23 2020, 8:16 am

I do everything I can in strict parve and use milchig only for milk and fleishig only for meat. I avoid cooking veggies or rice or noodles in a fleishig pot. During the week, I mainly cook dairy, so there I might cook veggies in dairy pots or pans... but parve is so much more practical...

There were times in my life when I had no space for fleishig in my kitchen, in this case I had everything milchig and did not bother to do parve...

FranticFrummie

Wed, Sep 23 2020, 8:20 am

I'm easily confused. I'm lucky I don't accidentally grab the wrong fork, even though the utensil drawers are on opposite sides of the kitchen!

I make things as easy for myself as possible. Everything is color coded. Silverware has obviously different patterns. (one set has smooth handles, and the other has ribbed handles, so even by touch I know the difference.)

I keep dairy stuff dairy, meaty stuff meaty - and even if "technically" I could use one keli and then eat on another plate or such, I just don't. Not because I'm so frum, but because I could never keep it all straight in my head!

If I boiled a vegetable in a meaty pot, it's going to be on a meaty plate, with meaty utensils. Period.

If I cut up an onion or garlic, I know exactly which knife and cutting board to use, and which pot it's going in.

I was at a friend's house once, and accidentally used her only parve knife to cut something mamash dairy. I felt so bad when she noticed! I ended up going out and buying her a GREEN handled knife to replace the one I messed up. (I didn't have to, but it made me feel better.) I told her that now whenever I come to visit, I'll know that the green one is parve, and I'll never make that mistake again.