S/o putting english names on birth certificates

shanie5

Wed, Oct 07 2020, 5:35 pm

I had a friend in high school who had a hard time getting a drivers permit. Her legal name was only on her birth certificate, everything else was in her jewish name. I forget what was needed then for the license, but I think she needed a letter from the principal to prove who she was.

My personal feeling is why not just anglicize your name for the times you feel its needed? So they can't pronounce Yakov, tell them to call you Jake. It doesn't have to be on the birth certificate to be used any more than a jewish name does.

Doctors and nurses learn soon enough how to pronounce names.

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Oct 07 2020, 5:41 pm

My husband comes from a long line of entrepreneurs. If you live in America it’s very unlikely you can own a business and only interact with Jews. He uses his English name in business. That was our rationale for giving our kids English names.

Our son has a name that doesn’t really translate to a normal English name so he has a random English name and I call him that sometimes as a joke (let’s say it’s Robert, I say come over here Bobby!!!). Our younger daughter has a three part name pne of which is same in English and Hebrew so that’s her English name.

Definitely not ashamed of being Jewish. Satmar certainly isn’t ashamed to be Jewish or hiding it in any way (they look the most Jewish out of most Jewish groups ), yet they give English names ... you’ll find plenty of Joel’s and Irving’s and Roses etc .

acemom

Wed, Oct 07 2020, 6:06 pm

All our kids have difficult to pronounce names so we end up giving a shortened or nicknamed name on the birth certificate.

I also take into consideration that it should be easy to spell, so we do only one syllable if possible.

Ex. Michoel is Mike, Binyomin is Ben, Chana is Ann (just examples; not their real names) Wink

For us, it's more about convenience rather than "hiding" our jewishness.

Both of us have jewish names as our legal names. We actually ended up shortening or changing for work because of pronunciation/spelling difficulties.

amother

Goldenrod

Wed, Oct 07 2020, 6:08 pm

Increasingly, other members of minority and ethnic groups wear their cultural/ethnic names with a badge of pride--and certainly don't feel the need to anglicize it. I felt that way on principle with my kids. Also, I have a legal name and a Jewish name (which is what I go by socially and at work) because I got a Jewish name later.

It's a pain to have 2 names. I so wish I just had 1 name. So, anyways, that's what I prefer. I hope my kids will want to do the same thing when they iyh start their families. But, to each his own.

amother

Blush

Wed, Oct 07 2020, 6:09 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

My name has a Tz sound and it has been a nightmare. The butchered pronunciation, difficulties in explaining it, spelling over the phone etc made me decide to give my daughter, who also has a Tz sound in her name, a legal name without that sound.

I totally get legal names.

If your name is Rachel or Sara, you can't truly understand.

“Tz” is fine. It’s the “tz” that comes along with a “v” that trips them up. “Tzvi” and “Tzvia” are impossible, and “Tzivia” is a very close runner up.

amother

Ecru

Wed, Oct 07 2020, 6:12 pm

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

Many other ethnicities also have a "work" name.

"Lucy" at the nail salon has a legal Chinese name that doesn't sound like Lucy.

Her son "Justin" already has that name included on his legal documents.

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Oct 07 2020, 6:38 pm

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

Actually, most people in America are not Anglo in origin but have anglo names . Sure there are people named Tanisha and Pablo but most Americans who trace their roots back to China or Africa or Russia have names like Rose, James and Jessica.

In fact the most common name amongst Hispanic males born a certain year in nyc (I think 2013), was not Juan or Javier but Jayden. The most common Italian American names are Anthony and Vincent - anglicised versions of Antonio and Vincenzo. I went to public high school with many Asians who anglicised their name, which isn’t as simple from Asian languages but we had Donghee (Tony), Heeyung (Helen), Iyen (Alan), etc. You may notice the woman named Quadrika but the most common African American names are names like Rose, Mary, Sophia etc depending on the generation, quite similar to white Americans. And again, Russians two generations in America rarely name their kids Artem and Svetlana.

This is mostly because they want to assimilate. I don’t want to assimilate so whether or not Koreans go by their birth names or John doesn’t matter to me. But the argument , which I’ve heard often , that ethnic minorities use their names with pride, is not true. In fact the names you hear that are “ethnic” usually are a symbol of lower income groups. A college educated black woman is unlikely to have a name like Prin’sece.

amother

Blonde

Wed, Oct 07 2020, 6:41 pm

I have a Hebrew name that has nothing to do with my English name (there is no connection whatsoever). I hated that, and that to me makes no sense. Think something like, my Hebrew name is Chana but my English name is Lauren.

One of mine has the English spelling of his name on his birth certificate, because it has a ח in it. The others have exactly the same names.

You have to weigh the convenience of an easier to spell or more neutral name on the BC against inconvenience for the child having different names and having ID that doesn't match what they are called. It can be inconvenient.

saw50st8

Wed, Oct 07 2020, 7:52 pm

I just have a Hebrew name and no middle name or English name and I absolutely hate it. Even though my name isn't that difficult to pronounce (Shira) it gets butchered all the time (Sheila, Shari, Shakira, Shaniqua...people add in whatever they feel like) and I didn't want that for my kids.

Most of my coworkers with complicated names end up going by a nickname of sorts.

All my kids have two Hebrew names and two English names. We actually call all of them by their English names. Their Hebrew names are after relatives so their English names are their own. So many names people use as "Hebrew" names are really Yiddish which were basically taken from other languages anyway.

It works for us.

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Oct 07 2020, 8:02 pm

nchr wrote:

1. It's been a minhag for a long time.
2. Some Yiddish names are Jewishized secular names (Agi, Ettel, Charna etc.)
3. I personally feel it is important
4. A serious respected English name has power IMO. I remember thinking what a shame the supreme court nominee will be named Amy rather than Katherine or Pauline or something respectable for someone her age.
5. It keeps secular identity and interactions emotionally sseparate

What is Ettel from?

amother

Gold

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 4:25 am

happy chick wrote:

I can't understand why people feel they need to put english names on birth certificates. Why can't you just put the child's given name? It's difficult for non-jews to pronounce? That's their problem. And what about when they can't pronounce a Jewish last name? All my own document say my Jewish name given at birth. Same for my husband all our children. The yidden got rewarded for keeping their jewish names and language in times of galus. And now, when we have freedom of religion, we're choosing to use english names so that others would be able to pronounce it? We should be using our Jewish names proudly!
JMHO

I agree with you... but I favor a classic transliteration in birth certificates... David, rather than Dovid, etc...

I suppose the tradition of having a different name on birth certificates comes from countries where there used to be a list of approved names people had to choose from, and many jewish names were not on the list...

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 5:37 am

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

This. My older siblings have names because in my country one had to take a name from a list. Like my sister debby on her bc is written Debora. Because you weren't allowed other names. The younger kids all have Hebrew names because by then the law had changed. ..

amother

Lemon

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 6:57 am

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

But Debby is a nickname so Debora makes sense. In US it's popular to name nicknames like Raizy, Rivky, Chanie but I don't understand it.

amother

Wheat

Thu, Oct 08 2020, 11:02 am

I agree with the OP. I am not a fan of giving an English name on the birth certificate. I am also not a fan of giving more than one name in general. IMO, you can adjust your name when it comes to situations that require it (work or college). If the name is Mordechai, go to Mordy. If it is Chanania, switch to Chan (similar to China). If the name is Chana or Chava, drop the C and go with Hanna or Hava.

Having to spell it out on the phone is not a good enough reason to have a different name on my kids birth certificates. I need to spell out my easy, well known name all the time.