Has parenting in the 21st century gone off the rails?

amother

cornflower

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 2:23 am

My super controlling selfish mother wouldn't let me stay the summer with a perfectly normal relative who offered to let me stay when I was freaking 17 years old. I still hate her for that, and other similar things she did.

If Gd told me that I would be reincarnated and could choose from a mother who would leave me alone in the house for short periods as a baby/toddler, or a mother who wouldn't let me alone until I was a legal adult and she no longer could decide for me, I'd take the first mother in a second.

DrMom

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 3:38 am

causemommysaid wrote:

are you sure? Cuz that is what I read on the shaitel appointment thread. Did I read it wrong?

I assumed people were talking about this thread, where the reluctant babysitting family did *not* share a wall with the babysat kids. They said they lived several hundred feet away and they had their own kids at home, who required attention and who generated noise which would have made it difficult to hear he monitor. Not a safe situation at all.

https://www.imamother.com/foru.....07212

Quote:

I don’t live just a wall away, it’s rather a few hundred feet. Secondly, it’s supper, bath & getting kids into bed time & extremely noisy, so no way am I even able to hear if the baby cries while I’m running around the house.

Also, this high-risk situation was to be repeated every weeknight.

I'm very much against helicopter parenting, but this is a very risky and neglectful set-up. To create this "babysitting" arrangement on a regular basis is really tempting fate.

amother

Turquoise

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 6:51 am

On Simchas Torah, we were walking home from hakafos - my husband and I plus all of our kids including a baby sleeping in the stroller.
I saw my neighbor who lives across the hall from me.
She was coming home from a different shul with her husband and kids but not her 6 month old baby. I wished her good yom tov and then asked, where is your baby?
She said he is napping at home (!!!!) and she was so happy he fell asleep so that they were able to go to hakafos.
I nearly fainted but I didn't know what to say.
She just moved in and she is from another country where I guess that is normal.

amother

Orchid

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 7:02 am

causemommysaid wrote:

And if you hire a teen babysitter she can also freak and leave the baby. Nothing is foolproof.

I don't believe that these worst case scenarios are a reason to call CPS on someone or mommy shame to that level.

These things have a very miniscule chance of happening.

It is more dangerous to drive in a car with a baby strapped correctly in a car seat.

I agree that it would be absurd to call CPS because a mother once left a sleeping toddler alone at home for 15 minutes... as you said: CPS has more important stuff to do and should be free to operate where there is real neglect, abuse and endangerment.

However, I understand the strong reactions here, because it should be brought home to parents that they should not just leave their toddlers unattended, even not if they are sleeping, even not if you think it is just for 15 min.

I agree that one should not leave a toddler, even if sleeping, unanttended while going to a shaitel appointment.

The problem is: what if it goes longer? What if something happens on the way? What if the toddler wakes up and is up to mischief?

This would be my main worry...

Fortunatly, we are not alone to raise children, we are surrounded by a majority of well-meaning adults who would also jump in if there is a problem, so there are layers of security to avoid catastrophies, even if a problematic situation arises (see the many mentions made on this forum about people seeing toddlers alone on the street who brought them back to their parents).

But it would increase the risk of tricky situations if, as a society, we were to accept a fashion of "leaving the toddler for a short while because he is sleeping anyway"...

amother

Lime

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 7:20 am

Do you not take showers while your kids are sleeping?

How would you put on a robe, grab all of your kids from their various bedrooms, and get them out of the house, if you suddenly noticed flames at the end of your shower?

Do any of you sleep at night while your kids are sleeping? Or do you hire a night watchman to guard the kids so you can fall asleep? What if a baby is choking and you don’t hear him gasping because you dared fall asleep at night?

Do you ever listen to music or a class using your AirPods Pro which effectively block background noise while your kids are sleeping, or is focus and concentration a luxury only for the childless?

Oh I remember that my cousin did not shower until her husband came home to watch the baby!

avrahamama

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 7:45 am

amother [ Taupe ] wrote:

Oh, come on. You also take risks with your kids. Do you take them in cars on unnecessary trips? Do you let them eat candy? Do you let them play outside? All of those things have inherent risks.

But you (as most of us) consider some risks to be unacceptable. Fair enough.

In some countries, kids are allowed to play with tools and start fires. In others, 5-year-olds are allowed to take the bus themselves.

If we lived there, that risk level would be normalized. Here, we've gone to some extremes. A 10-year-old is considered too young to walk around the block herself. A 9-year-old can't play in the park without dedicated adult supervision.

Is a next-door neighbor monitoring a sleeping baby reasonable? We could definitely argue about it, but I'd lean towards saying it's a decent level of hishtadlus.

I mean, if I was in the basement folding laundry, I'd also rely on the monitor (or even go downstairs without a monitor), and quite possibly for longer than 15 minutes. I'm just a flight of steps and a door away. The next-door neighbor is actually probably closer.

Nobody is saying "Statistically I could leave them alone for 8 hours before the risk level approaches X, so I'll do that." But accepting a low level of risk periodically is something we all do. Just for you, this PARTICULAR risk is socially reprehensible.

I think most of what you said is fair. But leaving a monitor with a neighbor at a time when she herself is multitasking her household is a higher risk. Afterschool, dinner, bedtime, homework...Because that lady has her own house and kids to look after. Because sometimes dinners get burnt and we get distracted by troubleshooting our own households and a monitor isn't a good enough reminder that you're caring for someone else's baby.

That being said I wouldn't call cps for such a thing. We've becime people who would rather call in authorities as opposed to just helping each other ...

ETA: my 10 yr old walks the block and uses tools and I even sat him down a forced him to learn how to light a match and he's even used the string trimmer to help with the lawn. But I'm around to offer guidance.

yksraya

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 8:10 am

amother [ Lime ] wrote:

It's different. If you don't see the difference, I can't help you.

yksraya

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 8:15 am

amother [ Orchid ] wrote:

yes, I am outtraged at the nonchalant attitude. I too would not call CPS. If I would've known of a constant neglect situation (mom not coping, house neglectful etc) I would call local bikkur cholim. They have a program to send women volunteers or teen volunteers to be like a mother's helper.

watergirl

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 8:52 am

It's funny. When I saw this thread, I assumed it was about the mothers who think nothing of leaving their children home with a monitor but it is the opposite.

One side is outraged. One side is using hyperbolic rhetoric and throwing around terms like "mom shaming" and "helicopter parenting".

I am not going to rewrite what I had written already in other threads. I am not going to get into that circular argument in this thread. It is my hope that these threads will inspire even one mother who reads them to rethink leaving her kids alone with a monitor at a neighbor. I hope those moms will read the things written in the other threads.

I am Davening that HKBH will keep an extra eye out for those babies left at home alone.

amother

Orange

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 9:22 am

amother [ Lime ] wrote:

Comments like these are overlooking a critical aspect. A mother a 24/7 job, so while we take showers and go to sleep, our sixth sense is still working. If I'd take a shower, my ears would still be tuning to hear any cries, or if a sudden silence ensued in an active household. When you sleep, your ears are still on the watch to pick up anything out of the ordinary. When our eyes can't do the job, our ears pitch in to be in charge.

And then there's a mother instinct. Has it never happened to you, that you got a sudden weird feeling to check in on a baby. Or a sudden unexplainable feeling that there's something going on. Like the time when I was folding laundry upstairs and I suddenly got that feeling that there's something off in the house. I went around room to room only to find the gas knob partly moved in the kitchen - no flame but gas was leaking. The small wasn't strong enough yet to reach other areas, so no detectors or alarms had been triggered at that time.

But when we hire babysitters - whether it's an actual person or just a monitor - we hand over these tools. Our ears aren't attuned, and our internal alert system is put on the back burner. If an actual person is taking over these duties, then that person tunes in instead (if she is fully available to be there, not busy taking care of her own kids, and your kid is a mere afterthought).. But if it's an object - a monitor - then we are dropping the ball by removing an important safety net from our precious children.

And to be honest, I don't understand that second question of yours - if I notice flames in my house when I'm in the shower, I would be wearing anything that's available in 2 seconds flat and be grabbing my kids in the next 2 seconds and be out of the house in the following seconds. What else would I possibly be doing in those first few critical moments? Making sure I'm so proper and set before I consider the lives of my children?

mizle10

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 9:36 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

Actually, I don’t even wake up from my crying newborns. My husband does and wakes me up.

Sunny Days

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 9:48 am

amother [ Blush ] wrote:

Disclaimer. I have never done this not do I plan to.

Do you realize that some of you live in houses where the kitchen is further from your kids rooms than my neighbors kitchen is to my kids room?

It’s not the same level of closedness (did I just make up that word? Lol) wall thickness, insulation etc. yes, some apt buildings have extremely non sound proof walls so for an urgent quick situation it may not be the end of the world.
I live on about 2000 sf and can pretty much hear everything in my house if I’m tuned in (meaning when the rest of the house is quiet’ish).

Ps for those asking about showering- that was the reason I got a video monitor when my husband started working late nights and I had a newborn who was sleeping in the crib (infant seat I would just bring into the room with me).
Otherwise I would turn off the water every few minutes thinking I’m hearing him cry...

And those monitors are not foolproof- they don’t catch every moment and get stuck sometimes.

Sunny Days

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 9:51 am

amother [ Lime ] wrote:

If im in my own house with open doors & less walls separating me from my neighbor I have more chances to be on the alert and catch if something is off ch’v. Monitors don’t smell smoke.

amother

Magenta

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 10:04 am

As an adult I realized that "heartwarming" story about R' Yisrael Salanter not showing up in shul for YK because he heard a baby crying with the mother not home, was pretty d*mning for the mother. She went off ti shul leaving her baby. The preeminent Rav clearly did not approve.

I think those people here arguing most adamantly are doing so because deep down they know there is something wrong. And if Ch"v there was a tragedy, a mom who left her baby alone at home would probably end up in jail. But not if she was in the shower or another room. Legally there's a difference. Morally, too. And you know that.