The Secret Garden | Imamother

amother

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:18 pm

I don't remember and definitely not with Bais Yaakov Girl sensitivities - is the book appropriate for a BY girl who has very very little exposure to anything secular?

LovesHashem

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:27 pm

I mean she may ask what gay means. In this case it means happy. I grew up reading many books with that word in it never hearing of gay in it's modern term (or maybe I did and I assumed it only had one meaning). Besides that I think it's fine.

boysrus

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:28 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

HOLD ON! are we talking about the same book? I am talking about the secret garden by Frances Hodgson Burnett. Its an old classic! Please tell me you are talking about a different book!

amother

Amber

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:33 pm

boysrus wrote:

HOLD ON! are we talking about the same book? I am talking about the secret garden by Frances Hodgson Burnett. Its an old classic! Please tell me you are talking about a different book!

Yes but its written in old fashioned English where gay does indeed mean happy.

Rappel

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:39 pm

boysrus wrote:

HOLD ON! are we talking about the same book? I am talking about the secret garden by Frances Hodgson Burnett. Its an old classic! Please tell me you are talking about a different book!

I think she's referring to the classic book, and that the word gay is used there in its classic sense, to mean happy. To my memory, it is a perfectly clean book.

Another one, along the same lines, was the Velvet Room, which was set in the Dust Bowl era.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod.....cc396

boysrus

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:39 pm

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

Yes but its written in old fashioned English where gay does indeed mean happy.

so why would that be an issue? Confused

once upon a time, gay meant happy
There are many old fashioned books that use that expression.
For example Enid Blyton books, Chalet school series by Elinor M brent dyer. These are old-fashioned English books that are great!

studying_torah

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:39 pm

I liked it as a child but as an adult re-reading it, I found the implications problematic.
They were very into how beautiful the (dead) mother had been; how ugly the girl was; how the boy thought he would be deformed and so he basically went nuts.
Andas they got healthier, they were more beautiful.
Idk I don't like the message.

boysrus

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:40 pm

studying_torah wrote:

interesting.... I never thought of it like that...

LovesHashem

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:40 pm

boysrus wrote:

HOLD ON! are we talking about the same book? I am talking about the secret garden by Frances Hodgson Burnett. Its an old classic! Please tell me you are talking about a different book!

I grew up reading Anne and Green Gables as well. I believe both that series and the secret garden do have the word gay in them referring to the definition of happy. This was a common used word back then and did not mean homos-xual.

I may be mistaken but I'm 99% sure the secret garden has the word in there. But again, if you kid has never heard of it in a homos-xual context there is nothing wrong with them learning the word as a old fashioned word to mean happy that's not used anymore in literature.

Many words are outdated that are found in these books and are used rarely.

avrahamama

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:41 pm

https://www.kosherbooks.org/

This site has many books listed along with a review of any problematic content.

I also like to read book reviews on Amazon specifically the 1 and 2 star reviews as that's where people who find problems in books usually are.

LovesHashem

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:42 pm

studying_torah wrote:

Doesn't both the girl and boy realize they are not deformed and ugly once they find their true selves? They never really changed, just their perception. And yes, healthy people DO look prettier, anorexic people don't look healthy and because of their condition don't look pretty. Sorry if that's blunt.

I think that's a great message - remind me if I'm mistaken about this what it really was.

Last edited by LovesHashem on Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

Rappel

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:42 pm

studying_torah wrote:

Funny. All I remember is the girl's demand for a bit of earth, her bold curiosity, and how the boy finally found the willpower to overcome his fears. I didn't read any of those messages at all. It's been a long time.

NotInNJMommy

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:43 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Doesn't both the girl and boy realize they are not deformed and ugly once they find their true selves? I think that's a great message - remind me if I'm mistaken about this what it really was.

Yes, I think they mirror the "secret garden" that was left to decay and brought back to life by care and nurturing...it had been neglected and ugly, and with care and energy, it regained it's vitality and therefore beauty....because it was implicit within, and merely needed to come out.

PS It's one of my favorite books ever. My father read it to me as a child (~ages 6-8 yrs)...but I didn't grow up frum...FWIW, I think it was pretty parve for any parents of kids that age. I've reread it as an adult, but I cannot remember if there could be 1-2 very subtle things re: romance that may not be comfortable for some sensibilities.

LovesHashem

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:49 pm

In the book, Mary’s mother is described as “a great beauty who cared only to go to parties and amuse herself with gay people”

I'm sure the word is mentioned in other places. Nowadays that sentence sounds like it could mean something else!

lilies

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 3:00 pm

NotInNJMommy wrote:

Yes, there are some subtleties.
Subleties. I don't think I've ever written that word. It's ripe for mispronunciation.

simcha2

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 3:05 pm

There's a small xtian reference towards the end. (The children recite a prayer that has the "father, son and holy ghost).

If she is very sheltered I'm pretty sure it will go over her head.

Iymnok

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 3:41 pm

I read it over 20 times in fifth grade.
I never really understood what they meant by "magic". It always seemed off and in-jewish to me. I always skipped that prayer. It was weird to call a ghost holy.
The rest is beautiful.