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-> Interesting Discussions
Chana Miriam S
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 Fri, Oct 23 2020, 3:02 pm
You know what changed our perspective? When we changed our way of eating, we stopped buying products sold in much but produce bags. We can recycle those here. We used to use a lot of foil pans but suddenly the ones we were using were both more expensive and also had more holes. So we bought lidded hotel pans, like are used in the food industry. We also use a hotel pan for our kediri blech So they fit in perfectly and have flat lids so we can stack.
We stopped acquiring so much and started having the energy to clean up after ourselves. We use paper plates occasionally or bamboo disposables, mostly when we eat outside, but they go in the organize bin collected by the city and try red into mulch.
We do our best, we are t perfect. We recycle per our city requirements which includes only being able to put 1 vessel of garbage out a week. Even with 7 adults in the house that bin is rarely full.
We feel so much better physically, there’s less clutter, less waste. Our house is cleaner because we dont acquire as much either.
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amother
Rose
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Fri, Oct 23 2020, 3:04 pm
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I think most frum people are just juggling too much. Most of us have two income houses, a bunch of kids, yomim tovim, and other jewish obligations. Take plastic for example, if I didn't use plastic for supper every night and yom tov I would literally collapse. So many of these things are lifesavers and it's just not doable. I don't have the time to walk everywhere instead of driving. I think people who don't get married and have children have an easier time taking on these extra burdens.
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pause
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Fri, Oct 23 2020, 3:25 pm
| youngishbear wrote: | | Maybe. I'm a "liberal" so it goes with the territory these days. |
Well, I'm not, and I find many people tell me they'd love to make more of an effort when they have more time, more money, more space, fewer kids home, etc. IOW, it's not looked down at but rather admired from afar as something unattainable for most.
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pause
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Fri, Oct 23 2020, 3:28 pm
| youngishbear wrote: | | I've had my bitachon/hashkafos questioned. |
It does depend on how you present it. If it's "The world can't handle so much plastic garbage..." then you deserve it  , but bal tashchis is universally recognized as an ideal to aim for.
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amother
Salmon
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Fri, Oct 23 2020, 3:32 pm
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We don’t really have an option where I am. You have to compost and recycle. Garbage is picked up every 2 weeks. That’s it. So you must use your compost tote for compost. It’s really not super hard. A friend of mine has 8 kids and she manages it. I think it’s a community thing though. Reduce, reuse, and recycle is just part of our lives.
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zaq
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Fri, Oct 23 2020, 3:32 pm
| andrea levy wrote: | . Even with 7 adults in the house that bin is rarely full.
. |
Wow, that's truly impressive! The volume of stuff I put in recycling is staggering--and a lot of it is charity junk mail. There doesn't seem to be a way to get off those mailing lists. And while I'd love to raise my own veggies and chickens and milk my own cows, I'm not in a position to do that while living in a filing cabinet in the middle of the concrete jungle. Like it or not, I have to buy my milk in plastic jugs. We don't have the option of buying in glass bottles that the milkman picks up when empty, as my folks did when I was a child.
How do people not realize that non-disposables are cheaper in the long run?
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amother
Coral
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Fri, Oct 23 2020, 3:32 pm
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I am in some mom groups and we do seem to use a lot more disposables than others.
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Frumme
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Fri, Oct 23 2020, 3:44 pm
| amother [ Pewter ] wrote: | Have some of you been reading threads here lately??? Plenty of us are up to our eyeballs in responsibilities. Struggling with lack of sleep, time, self care, Work, and you are implying that I’m being lazy (And entitled!) by not washing dishes 3 times a day for my family of 6? we as a group tend to eat out infrequently, so that’s also a whole lot of pots and cooking utensils. Honestly- how much extra waste is being produced by busy households use of paper goods, and how much harm is that causing the environment?
Or do you think I shouldn’t have had so many kids In the first place if I can’t find the time to wash all the dishes every day? |
It's not all or nothing. Even things like buying in bulk or reusing empty bottles for crafts is being conscientious of the environment.
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youngishbear
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Fri, Oct 23 2020, 3:47 pm
| pause wrote: | | It does depend on how you present it. If it's "The world can't handle so much plastic garbage..." then you deserve it , but bal tashchis is universally recognized as an ideal to aim for. |
I think those criticisms are more likely in a conversation about global warming, but it's been a while. These days I supposedly lack bitachon because I advocate hishtadlus against Covid.
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imasoftov
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Sat, Oct 24 2020, 1:20 pm
| Abi6 wrote: | | why is it so looked down on to be more mindful of our pollution habits? |
Some excerpts from posts from here over the years. I'm omitting names of these posters and my responses.
| Quote: | | I think I would be concerned if I wasn’t frum. Moshiach will come for sure in less than 200 years will my plastic ruin the world before then? I don’t think so. (8 likes) |
| Quote: | | I believe that environmentalism is avoda zara and people sacrifice things to it, like comfort. (22 likes) |
| Quote: | | I think a major point to remember is that Hashem runs the world and there are many positive points to global warming. As the ice melts, the water is extremely rich in minerals. The size of salmon up in Alaska has increased as the glaciers melt. As the ice melts, their is greater plant life. Plants are essential to our environmental health, as opposed to ice, which may be pretty, but has no intrinsic positive value for humanity. (1 like) |
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amother
Tangerine
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Sat, Oct 24 2020, 1:48 pm
| #BestBubby wrote: | The Torah commands "Ba'al Tashchis" so I try not to waste anything - including water and electricity.
BUT the Climate Change Hoax is just an excuse for Government to control literally EVERYTHING -
it would be the abolition of private property. |
Let's agree to disagree.
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FranticFrummie
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Sat, Oct 24 2020, 1:50 pm
I was thrilled to find out that my landlord composts, has his own garden, encourages gardening for the tenants, and doesn't mind if I have my own compost bin. (Meat scraps go to the stray cats that help control the snakes and scorpions that visit in the summer.)
I wish we had a better recycling system in my city, so I try to reuse as much as possible, and reduce buying things that are not biodegradable. I really hate it when the only option is to buy produce that is already wrapped in plastic, but I understand the Israeli concern for bugs getting into open foods like lettuce or spinach.
Milk cartons are great for starting seedlings, and if you cut the bottom off of a soda bottle, it makes a good mini-greenhouse. Don't forget to leave the cap off of the soda bottle, or your seeds will get moldy. Use the two together to start seeds that can be notoriously finicky and you'll have success, while getting a jump start on the planting season.
I keep all of my cloth shopping bags in my bubbe cart, along with reusable and washable mesh bags for produce, and plastic containers for spices and bulk items. The cashiers always flip out when they see my mesh produce bags. They want to know where I get them (Amazon, really cheap). They usually hold them up and yell "Look at the tzaddekis!" 
I just bought a new clothes dryer. I could have gotten a cheaper one with a "C" energy rating, but chose a more expensive one with a "B" rating. Not everyone can afford to make that choice. Better technology, like a Tesla, is expensive at the outset, even if it does save money over time. I'll still be using my drying rack as much as possible, and probably only use the dryer in the winter or on really humid days. (There were some days this summer, when clothing hung out in the sun for 3 days, and still was just as damp as the day I hung it up. The only difference was that there were lines where the sun bleached the fabric.)
IMHO, where environmentalism goes wrong, is when it almost becomes avoda zara. People can make an idol out of "being green", without any concern for the feelings of others. We have to keep the big picture in mind, and humans are notoriously bad at that. You do you, but don't go around telling a woman with a difficult pregnancy and twin toddlers that she can't use plastic plates. Don't yell at me for owning a dryer, if you don't know how often I use it. Don't yell at me for having a small dishwasher, if you don't know how much my back aches (and you're welcome to come over and do my dishes for me.)
B'H we live in an age that has technological conveniences. The way to find balance is to really stop and think about what we are doing.
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LovesHashem
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Sat, Oct 24 2020, 1:53 pm
I agree with everyone - the person who said about the garbage on the roads, paths, hikes, parks in Israel.
There is a difference between being taught to use a trash can and reducing your waste and carbon footprint. I think Judiasm does believe in teaching middos, not wasting, and many people say it's ossur to litter (especially in ISRAEL!) Littering also falls under following the laws of your country so if it's illegal then it should be followed.
In addition Judiasm cherishes life and the planet - we look down upon killing animals for fun and other such wasteful things.
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LovesHashem
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Sat, Oct 24 2020, 1:56 pm
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Also most of us believe moshiach will come before the world burns so we have other priorities like our families, jobs, etc and don't have time to focus on washing dishes over plastic.
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Raisin
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Sat, Oct 24 2020, 5:49 pm
We are definitely aware of this. I use disposable but try and get compostible or paper ones and wooden cutlery. I limit use of foil dishes (only if I need to freeze things I use them)
We are strict about recycling and composting but we don't really have a choice where we live. We just woulddn't have space for our rubbish if we didn't.
We have a hybrid car. We would love a tesla but too much money for us. Hopefully the price will come down soon. But I walk as much as possible or take public transport.
I think the enviromentalists eg Prince Harry* who say having more kids is bad for the enviroment are stupid. We have 6 kids and we very rarely fly anywhere with them all. Who can afford that? We buy lots of stuff second hand.
*I am sure he NEVER flies in a private jet or has a huge house or spends lots of money on consumer item. I bet his kid leaves a bigger carbon footprint then all of my kids put together.
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imasoftov
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Sat, Oct 24 2020, 6:05 pm
| LovesHashem wrote: | | Also most of us believe moshiach will come before the world burns so we have other priorities like our families, jobs, etc and don't have time to focus on washing dishes over plastic. |
As Kohelet said, all things are wearying, but cut and paste can help with some of that.
I've posted the source for 6000 years before and now I wonder if when the Gemara says the world will be destroyed for a thousand years after 6000 it is because it will take that long for us to repair the damage.
I also mentioned that on the same page of Gemara it says that Rabbi Zeira, when he found rabbis talking about Mashiach he would ask them not to delay his arrival by giving a date for that.
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ggdm
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Sat, Oct 24 2020, 6:15 pm
There are frum people who care about the environment. Check this blog:
https://lowwastefrum.com/
I was raised to save water and energy and to recycle. I now do it automatically. It breaks my heart every time I see a ton of disposables at the holiday meals in the Jewish community. But of course between so many people and with kashrut, I can understand that it is the only way.
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pause
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Sat, Oct 24 2020, 7:29 pm
| youngishbear wrote: | | I think those criticisms are more likely in a conversation about global warming, but it's been a while. These days I supposedly lack bitachon because I advocate hishtadlus against Covid. |
Well then I might agree with "them."
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Chana Miriam S
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Sat, Oct 24 2020, 7:49 pm
| zaq wrote: | Wow, that's truly impressive! The volume of stuff I put in recycling is staggering--and a lot of it is charity junk mail. There doesn't seem to be a way to get off those mailing lists. And while I'd love to raise my own veggies and chickens and milk my own cows, I'm not in a position to do that while living in a filing cabinet in the middle of the concrete jungle. Like it or not, I have to buy my milk in plastic jugs. We don't have the option of buying in glass bottles that the milkman picks up when empty, as my folks did when I was a child.
How do people not realize that non-disposables are cheaper in the long run? |
Our garbage bin is not full. Our recycle used to be much more too. We still have some packaging, we recycle paper, and actually because we buy wholesale meat, our use of the foam trays meat comes in is lower. My guilty pleasure is good ziploc that we sous vide in.
My city makes it easy. Even with the green bin, we have so much less waste because we use what we buy. We also do crazy things like saving the juices from cooking meat for soup.
We don’t use milk but do buy heavy cream. Those containers are recyclable ( paper cartons.)
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youngishbear
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Sat, Oct 24 2020, 8:49 pm
| zaq wrote: |
How do people not realize that non-disposables are cheaper in the long run? |
Some people are overwhelmed by their responsibilities and consider disposables a gift from Hashem for maintaining their sanity; a necessary expense.
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