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MSM and anti Israel bias

 
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frum_lady




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Nov 16 2020, 10:49 pm
It is pretty well understood that the main stream media has a terrible bias against Israel in their “reporting”. Outright lying about how Israel is an apartheid state torturing the poor palestinians, and covering up for the Arabs when they are literally shooting rockets from school buildings.
Firstly, I guess I’m curious if the liberal leaning women on this site agree with that statement, or if they actually believe that Israel is evil.
And secondly, I certainly hope that you don’t - so how do you resolve that in your head - that main stream media can lie and twist anything they say in regard to israel, and yet not believe that maybe they are just pushing their own agenda all along with regard to whatever they feel like (covid, trump, Republicans....)
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frum_lady




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 5:28 am
Anyone interested in weighing in?
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servewithjoy




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 5:32 am
Completely agree with you!!!
A truly illuminating point!
Israel and the Jews are the litmus test.
The canary in the mine.
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servewithjoy




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 6:58 am
Its a great post Op. Most likely the reason you are not getting responses is because you asked for liberal women to weigh in on this topic. Might not be a reality upon which they are eager to comment here.
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frum_lady




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 7:39 am
servewithjoy wrote:
Its a great post Op. Most likely the reason you are not getting responses is because you asked for liberal women to weigh in on this topic. Might not be a reality upon which they are eager to comment here.


I was thinking the exact same thing
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Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 7:55 am
Its a misleading title, which always puts me off. The title is about MSM and bias against Israel. Its fair to extend that into a dicussion about anti-Israel bias in the media. But the OP twists it, and then tries to turn that into a discussion of politic and the elections and the media reaction. Arguably a fair point, but say so in the title, intead of trying to hide behind discussions of Israel in the media.

(Born in England, and living in Israel, I have minimal interest in American politics, and no idea where I would stand on the political spectrum.)
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frum_lady




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 8:06 am
Elfrida wrote:
Its a misleading title, which always puts me off. The title is about MSM and bias against Israel. Its fair to extend that into a dicussion about anti-Israel bias in the media. But the OP twists it, and then tries to turn that into a discussion of politic and the elections and the media reaction. Arguably a fair point, but say so in the title, intead of trying to hide behind discussions of Israel in the media.

(Born in England, and living in Israel, I have minimal interest in American politics, and no idea where I would stand on the political spectrum.)


I’m not twisting anything. I didn’t know exactly how to get all I wanted to ask in a short title. So figured people would figure out when they read the actual post. Nothing nefarious here.

And that would be a silly excuse not to weigh in if you had something to add.
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Chickensoupprof




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 10:29 am
Interesting.

As first, I need you to say that I'm far from a nationalist or patriotic. I'm not waving the Dutch flag nor the Israeli flag. I really grew up with the idea that everyone is equally right and Israel related politics was not a part of my upbringing while I've heard of many BT's it was a big thing, Israel politics, and Arab politics are in some secular Jewish communities a replacement of Yiddishkeit.
I will get back to that.

I've never seen Arabs in the Netherlands as my enemy nor as a potential danger to me. Even when I became more religious I hold contact with Muslims, for some people totally weird but I grew up in a village with no Jews, and my mom was often called out as ''filthy Arab'' by others because she looked 'eastern'. My mom really raised us with respect and acceptance towards any minority LGBTs, POC, asylum seekers, etc.
When I tell that to people they say: 'and what about terrorists?' that was not an issue, when there were terrorist attacks we were of course broken and talked about but it never leads to 'Arabs are bad' or 'Blacks are bad'.

And this is still my way of thinking. Of course, I find it biased when the news doesn't report massive attacks on Israeli citizens from Gaza. But does it mean that Israeli politics by itself is untouchable? Even being in Israel for a long time didn't make a diehard zionist. And if I'm really honest I kinda understand what Reb Yoelish d'satmar said about establishing the state of Israel. It leads to nothing but problems Reb Yoelish saw that. However I don't cheer on burning Israeli flags by Satmar cheiders, I in general don't cheer on burning flags I find it really silly. I'm really puzzled by my feeling towards Israel also because I don't have any nationalist or patriotic ideal nor a zionist ideal.
And I really think that lots of secular Jews and reform Jews are so pro Israel because they don't have Torah u' mitzvot. And I kinda believe EY is the chosen country Hashem takes care of that, that is why things happen and if you don't trust on Hashem but on the Israeli government (oh I don't like the mesjeberch for the Israeli government and the IDF... it happens in the shul here but not in other shuls in the NL) then you don't believe in Hashem.
Also being critic on Israel is allowed and good, I find sometimes peopel who are always showing how amazing Israel is and how good Israel is and how it is amazing and everything is find also biased. You can be critical that is why it is a democracy and it is good to be.
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frum_lady




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 10:42 am
Chickensoupprof wrote:
Interesting.

As first, I need you to say that I'm far from a nationalist or patriotic. I'm not waving the Dutch flag nor the Israeli flag. I really grew up with the idea that everyone is equally right and Israel related politics was not a part of my upbringing while I've heard of many BT's it was a big thing, Israel politics, and Arab politics are in some secular Jewish communities a replacement of Yiddishkeit.
I will get back to that.

I've never seen Arabs in the Netherlands as my enemy nor as a potential danger to me. Even when I became more religious I hold contact with Muslims, for some people totally weird but I grew up in a village with no Jews, and my mom was often called out as ''filthy Arab'' by others because she looked 'eastern'. My mom really raised us with respect and acceptance towards any minority LGBTs, POC, asylum seekers, etc.
When I tell that to people they say: 'and what about terrorists?' that was not an issue, when there were terrorist attacks we were of course broken and talked about but it never leads to 'Arabs are bad' or 'Blacks are bad'.

And this is still my way of thinking. Of course, I find it biased when the news doesn't report massive attacks on Israeli citizens from Gaza. But does it mean that Israeli politics by itself is untouchable? Even being in Israel for a long time didn't make a diehard zionist. And if I'm really honest I kinda understand what Reb Yoelish d'satmar said about establishing the state of Israel. It leads to nothing but problems Reb Yoelish saw that. However I don't cheer on burning Israeli flags by Satmar cheiders, I in general don't cheer on burning flags I find it really silly. I'm really puzzled by my feeling towards Israel also because I don't have any nationalist or patriotic ideal nor a zionist ideal.
And I really think that lots of secular Jews and reform Jews are so pro Israel because they don't have Torah u' mitzvot. And I kinda believe EY is the chosen country Hashem takes care of that, that is why things happen and if you don't trust on Hashem but on the Israeli government (oh I don't like the mesjeberch for the Israeli government and the IDF... it happens in the shul here but not in other shuls in the NL) then you don't believe in Hashem.
Also being critic on Israel is allowed and good, I find sometimes peopel who are always showing how amazing Israel is and how good Israel is and how it is amazing and everything is find also biased. You can be critical that is why it is a democracy and it is good to be.



You are diverging from my original question. In order to understand what I am asking - you need to go back to what you know from past conflicts in Israel - for example Operation Protective Edge. And see the differences from what we knew to be true - knowing our Israeli brethren and how the IDF holds itself, and how they were portrayed by CNN and MSNBC etc.. The differences were so stark they were sick!! It was so frustrating to many of us. Showing Israel to be evil while downplaying the Arab attacks.. the bias was so clear - there was NO way to deny it.
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Chickensoupprof




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 11:23 am
frum_lady wrote:
You are diverging from my original question. In order to understand what I am asking - you need to go back to what you know from past conflicts in Israel - for example Operation Protective Edge. And see the differences from what we knew to be true - knowing our Israeli brethren and how the IDF holds itself, and how they were portrayed by CNN and MSNBC etc.. The differences were so stark they were sick!! It was so frustrating to many of us. Showing Israel to be evil while downplaying the Arab attacks.. the bias was so clear - there was NO way to deny it.


Yeah the busses don't drive where I live and I never watch CNN and MSNBC and I didn't deny anything... I answered these questions

Quote:
Firstly, guess ’m curious if the liberal leaning women on this site agree with that statement, or if they actually believe that Israel is evil.
And secondly, certainly hope that you don’t - so how do you resolve that in your head - that main stream media can lie and twist anything they say in regard to israel, and yet not believe that maybe they are just pushing their own agenda all along with regard to whatever they feel like (covid, trump, Republicans....)


You didn't specify that I had to know the latest israeli news, and have always CNN or MSNBC on. Also don't have time for all that. Laundry is piling up girl.
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elsily




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 11:42 am
I started a whole reply and then it deleted in the middle, but I’ll try to type everything out again.
Anti-semitism is everywhere and bias leaks into the delivery of news. I think that’s indisputable. I turn to my Israeli family for what’s really happening on the ground, while I take news reporting on Israel with a grain of salt (or 5). There are many scientific resources to turn to for trustworthy information about covid, and none of the news sources I pay attention to are anti-science. Does that make sense? I’ve grown up with the understanding that you just can’t trust what the world tells us about Jews and Israel. But I didn’t grow up in an environment that had a mistrust of science - probably because I come from a family of scientists.
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frum_lady




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:03 pm
elsily wrote:
I started a whole reply and then it deleted in the middle, but I’ll try to type everything out again.
Anti-semitism is everywhere and bias leaks into the delivery of news. I think that’s indisputable. I turn to my Israeli family for what’s really happening on the ground, while I take news reporting on Israel with a grain of salt (or 5). There are many scientific resources to turn to for trustworthy information about covid, and none of the news sources I pay attention to are anti-science. Does that make sense? I’ve grown up with the understanding that you just can’t trust what the world tells us about Jews and Israel. But I didn’t grow up in an environment that had a mistrust of science - probably because I come from a family of scientists.


The major news sources might not be anti science - but the hype and hysteria is not science. And also, focusing on whatever studies they choose to, based on their agenda is a problem.
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elsily




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:05 pm
frum_lady wrote:
The major news sources might not be anti science - but the hype and hysteria is not science. And also, focusing on whatever studies they choose to, based on their agenda is a problem.


I don’t give into hype and hysteria. I follow the research. I work in medical care, so I don’t have an issue understanding what’s really going on. And in my opinion, I don’t see “hype and hysteria” on the news. I see an accurate representation of what’s going on.
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dancingqueen




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Nov 17 2020, 2:07 pm
Yes it bothers me. And I really hope no frum women hate Israel. I know there are some groups that are anti Israel and that bothers me as well.
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servewithjoy




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Nov 30 2020, 2:34 pm
So many groups have documented the anti Israel bias in the MSM. When their bias is so obvious they lose credibility in all areas.
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Icecreammama




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Nov 30 2020, 3:06 pm
elsily wrote:
I’ve grown up with the understanding that you just can’t trust what the world tells us about Jews and Israel. But I didn’t grow up in an environment that had a mistrust of science - probably because I come from a family of scientists.


Funny, I don't know much about science, but in my circles our attitude towards science was "respect and suspect." and anything anti torah just isnt true.

Especially since the study of real science is a learning process and is not in its nature stable. For years it was assumed that science and Torah dont mix. These days the biggest scientists are saying there's more proof of G-d than not.

Science has advanced and is a great help to society, however, when I hear anyone proclaiming to all to "follow the science" - it sounds an alarm and makes me very suspicious.

Maybe it comes from our Russian background. The G-d hating communists worshipped science.

Maybe because the "science" of evolution is what led to the final solution.

Because of its creepy history Science must be ethically and morally used, and when I begin to hear it in the political world, I can't help but be wary who it is that's promoting it and what's their agenda.

Sorry for going off on a tangent.
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servewithjoy




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Nov 30 2020, 4:18 pm
Excellent points ice cream! Evolution anyone?
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