Rachel and Esther's sacrifice- why is Rachel's greater?

amother

Sat, Nov 28 2020, 9:21 pm

We have zchus avos from Rachel. Why not from Esther. Didn't she sacrifice more? She gave up her entire future, had to live with a non Jew and couldn't marry Mordechai, if they were spouses. Rachel gave up her spouse, but later was able to marry him. You could argue that she didn't know whether she would be able to. But Esther knew she would never be able to go back. Even though Rachel's was her own idea, and Esther was asked by Mordechai, she still ultimately did it. Hashem promised Rachel that her children would come back, why didn't Esther receive something similar? Were there other women in Tanach who sacrificed similarly?

realsilver

Sat, Nov 28 2020, 9:25 pm

Esther got her ability and strength to be able to do that from Rachel. It’s her ancestor (ish Yemini means binyamin) Rachel passed on the Midah of tznius and strength.
You can say that what esther did was all Rachel’s credit.

amother

Hotpink

Sat, Nov 28 2020, 9:25 pm

octopus wrote:

Esther probably got her strength from Rachel to sacrifice. The avos and imahos gave us the strength in our dna. Maaaseh avos siman lbanim.

Yes. I was going to say that a large difference is that she was one of our imahos. It gave a zchus to the whole klal yisroel.

realsilver

Sat, Nov 28 2020, 9:30 pm

NotLazySusan wrote:

Maybe Rochel’s sacrifice is not greater. Is there a source that says it is?

No, but the geula will iyh be in Rachel’s name, because of the great sacrifice she did

causemommysaid

Sat, Nov 28 2020, 9:36 pm

There is a concept of maase avos siman labanim.

The actions of the fathers is symbolic for the children.

If you look at our history, lots of things that happened later on in Tanach mirror what happened in the beginning of Tanach.

Esther was able to do what she did because of Rachel.

Parents are able to poison their children during the crusades to stop the church from taking them because Avraham was willing to kill Yitzchak for Hashem.

Jews are able to die for Hashem because Avraham threw himself into the fire.

amother

Sat, Nov 28 2020, 9:36 pm

NotLazySusan wrote:

Maybe Rochel’s sacrifice is not greater. Is there a source that says it is?

So why was Rachel rewarded so greatly and Esther not as much? Why do we continue to have zechus imahos from Rachel but not Esther?

seeker

Sat, Nov 28 2020, 9:39 pm

Wrong time and place. There have been numerous heroes and great people but there was only ever one set of patriarchs and matriarchs from whom the nation descended.

I've never heard them compared side to side with one coming out above the other, they just lived in a totally different context.

behappy2

Sat, Nov 28 2020, 9:44 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So why was Rachel rewarded so greatly and Esther not as much? Why do we continue to have zechus imahos from Rachel but not Esther?

We really dont know what their rewards are in shamayim. Do we?

amother

Magenta

Sat, Nov 28 2020, 9:44 pm

If I understand the story correctly, Esther did not have a choice in going to the palace, or in being chosen as queen. Her sacrifice was in voluntarily going to Achashvarosh to make a request. 1. She risked possibly getting killed, as the king had not called her. 2. Until that point, her relations with the king were considered by force. Her going to the king by choice risked her olam habbah (that's why she used double language when saying "and if I die, then I die).

So it's a different sacrifice entirely than Rachel.

(Also, even if she wasn't chosen as queen, she would not have been able to return to Mordechai. Look at the pasukim. The women were sent to the concubine house unless called by name. Once the king was with a woman, she was forbidden to other men.)

leah233

Sat, Nov 28 2020, 9:45 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So why was Rachel rewarded so greatly and Esther not as much? Why do we continue to have zechus imahos from Rachel but not Esther?

Who is descended from Esther that would have zechus imahos from her?

realsilver

Sat, Nov 28 2020, 9:46 pm

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

I agree with all this.
Also , I learnt that esther’s main praise was that she didn’t tell achashverosh her birthplace and religion. She kept silent. I think that’s where we compare her to Rachel!

amother

Cobalt

Sat, Nov 28 2020, 10:47 pm

I haven’t heard this anywhere but would assume that Rachel’s deed was much more quiet than Esther’s. She did not expect any positive publicity or reward for her efforts. We don’t know if anyone aside from Yaakov and Leah would have ever found out.
Esther, although she risked death, was in a much more public role. Everyone in the kingdom would know about what she did, whatever the outcome.
Sometimes, doing something publicly, rather than privately, reduces the greatness of the deed.

Btw, in regard to Esther not being able to return to Mordechai after being with Achashverosh, I have heard ain interesting explanation. Each time that Esther was forced to be with achashverosh, Hashem had made a miracle, and a “double” was sent instead. But when she willingly went to the king, she was giving up this miracle, and she herself actually went. Therefore she would have only became forbidden to Mordechai after that time.

amother

Forestgreen

Sat, Nov 28 2020, 10:53 pm

amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:

Actually, if anything, Esther bore the brunt of a ton of criticism from the Jewish nation at the time. The way they saw it (and understandably so) was that they had the queen from their nation, and yet things kept getting worse. They held their plight against Mordechai and Esther. It's not clear that the Jews knew what they were fasting for, specifically, before Esther went into the palace, nor that they knew the extent of her sacrifice.

The reason Rachel is greater is simply that Esther got her strength from Rachel, as other posters said. Rachel is the originator who passed down the spiritual DNA for her descendants to do the same.