COVID vaccine if you are natural minded?

amother

Wine

Wed, Dec 30 2020, 5:52 am

Depending on the risk category you are in with the virus itself, the vaccine risks look more or less of a concern.

If you're over 65, the vaccine seems a perfectly reasonable risk.

Between 45 and 65 or with medical conditions, it's less clear, probably leaning more towards vaccine.

Under 45, I'm personally more wary, but everyone has to make a risk/benefit analysis.

Under 30, I don't think I'd take the risk at all, unless it's proven that me taking the vaccine protects other people, I.e. prevents me from being a carrier and provides herd immunity.

(For reference I'm an almost-never vaxxer.)

FranticFrummie

Wed, Dec 30 2020, 6:11 am

I'm a cautious vaxxer. DD got her vaccines on a spaced and delayed schedule, with everything broken down into single components - no compound shots. That way I could see exactly which vaccine she was reacting to. She had a very bad reaction to the Pertussis shot, and I was glad that it was easy to narrow down when it happened. (As she got older, around 10, she was able to get it without any bad effects.)

I let DD do the research about the HPV vaccine. I let her talk to her doctors, and make her own decision. She chose to get the first shot at 16, which is way behind schedule, but I though it was important for her to feel in control of that. If she follows up on the boosters like she's supposed to, than that's her responsibility.

I am concerned about not having long term studies on the Covid vaccine, but I am more concerned about getting Covid again. I'm still not completely recovered from March, and I'm not sure I'd survive a second round of it.

Everyone has to do their own risk assessment. I wish everyone would get vaccinated, but I'm not going to shame anyone for not getting it. Like I said, there's still too much we don't know, and if someone wants to take a wait and see approach, that is perfectly valid in my book. If the vaccine had been around for 20 years already, that would be a different conversation completely.

BTW, I won't be getting my Covid vaccine and the flu vaccine at the same time. If I'm going to have a reaction, I want to know which vaccine is doing what - just like the way I spaced out DD's vaccines.

amother

Babyblue

Wed, Dec 30 2020, 6:17 am

I consider myself more natural minded, but I'm also vehemently pro-vax, for just about everything.

'Nature' would have us exposed to horrific diseases that can wipe out huge segments of the population. 'Nature' could permanently maim our bodies if we even survived some of her destructive creations. I'm so grateful there are vaccinations to protect us from smallpox, polio, diphtheria, etc.

Nature gave us killers. Hashem gave us the seichel to figure out a way to outsmart Nature so that we could survive and live to follow the Torah.

So yes, I can't wait to get my covid shots.

Elfrida

Wed, Dec 30 2020, 6:26 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

BTW, I won't be getting my Covid vaccine and the flu vaccine at the same time. If I'm going to have a reaction, I want to know which vaccine is doing what - just like the way I spaced out DD's vaccines.

You need a minimum two week interval between Corona and any other shots. I've had to send a few people away and help them book fresh appointments for the Corona vaccine because they did a flu shot last week. Given the need for two shots at three weeks intervals (and that the interval is normally closer to four weeks), anyone getting a Corona vaccine now won't be able to get a flu shot until about mid-February, by which time the flu season will be almost over.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Dec 30 2020, 6:31 am

Elfrida wrote:

Good to know my instincts were right!

So which would you recommend to get first? Flu shot?

I think that would make sense, because if I wait for the Covid shot then it gives other people like medical workers the chance to get theirs. I have the option to stay home, but people like you don't.

amother

Wine

Wed, Dec 30 2020, 6:44 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I guess I am wondering since there was no time to do any long term studies about the vaccine do we really know the risks (long term)?

Not sure I agree with this position, but some experts say that all negative effects from vaccines show up within a few weeks.

In general it's hard to prove that later onset issues come from vaccines, because the logistics of a large enough study population with a proper control group etc. are difficult. Most vaccine injury cases are thrown out because it's hard to prove cause.

Elfrida

Wed, Dec 30 2020, 6:46 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

If you do a flu shot shot now, you can do a Corona shot in two weeks - if you can get an appointment in two weeks.

If you do a Corona shot in a few days, that is the first dose. For convenience, say you do it on 1st January. The earliest you could do the second dose would be 22nd January. (In practice I see the second appointment is often closer to a month than three weeks after the first shot.) Then you would have to wait another two weeks before doing the flu shot, which would bring it to around the first week in February, and possibly later.

If you haven't done it yet, it makes a lot more sense to get a flu shot now, and try to book an appointment for the first Corona shot in about two weeks. From what I hear you'd be lucky to get an appointment for two weeks, anyway, so just book it as soon as you can.

But this is rather getting away from the OP's original question.

southernbubby

Wed, Dec 30 2020, 8:09 am

Given the fact that this pandemic has been almost the equivalent of Noah's flood, as far as damage to the world, I don't think that we should be looking for a way out of this vaccine.
There are supplements that may (note disclaimer) make the virus less severe and there is antibody treatment that is sitting unused on hospital shelves that may prevent hospitalization but neither of those hold the possibility of a return to the life that we once had.
I think that people who are focused on using older drugs to cure the virus are missing the fact that few pathogens on earth match the transmissibility of the coronavirus and that allowing people to catch the virus and then attempting to treat it with questionably effective drugs still greatly disrupts the attempt to return to normal. Isn't normal life what we all really want?

amother

Slateblue

Wed, Dec 30 2020, 8:55 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

You betcha. I work with Covid patients every day. I’m getting round 1 today!

Yay!!!
I just got my first round. Currently sitting in the waiting area and playing on my phone for 15 minutes in the “observation area” before I go back to my job.
FYI, hurt a whole lot less than flu.

NotInNJMommy

Wed, Dec 30 2020, 9:01 am

Necessity of the perception thereof can change a lot.

Environmentalist opposition to nuclear power plants in France is not what it is in the US because France has no natural fuel resources and needs nuclear power to stay a first world country. The US is in a different situation-has lots of resources and environmentalist opposition to nuclear power is intense.

So too, I think many who are typically more anti vax will not be with COVID because of what living in a COVID world entails.

amother

White

Wed, Dec 30 2020, 9:08 am

I think there are people who are very natural minded while understanding and agreeing with a lot of mainstream science and medicine, applying it to themselves on a case by case basis. Those people will be making intelligent, evidence based decisions for themselves on a case by case basis for the covid vaccine as well.

Then there are people who don't quite understand all the information or misinformation they are repeating. They latch onto whichever doctors or lay people they choose and parrot what those people say without truly grasping any of the science. They will not be making intelligent, evidence based decisions regarding the covid vaccine.

Pretty sure that covers it...

amother

Ruby

Wed, Dec 30 2020, 6:16 pm

No. Come from a natural minded home, born at home... I only received one vax in my life and I pay the consequences -autoimmune. I now refuse to take pharmaceuticals, (obviously within reason) and try to have only the cleanest supplies in my home. While I can't yet afford organic, I avoid all inflammatory foods and for sure never touch white flour sugar. Use diaphragm and VCF after babies.

No way would I take any covid pharmaceutical product whether it's a vaccine or not. Every prescription is poison and I think long and hard before considering putting it in my body. I don't care if I won't be able to travel or work in certain fields. My health comes first and I am just not willing to risk not being a functional human being by willingly injecting something into my body.

If public health was really the concern here we'd see a lot more "make sure to get lots of vegetables, exercise and plenty Vit D" and way less of "stay home, keep a filthy mask on your face and buy my product"

smss

Wed, Dec 30 2020, 6:37 pm

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

No. Come from a natural minded home, born at home... I only received one vax in my life and I pay the consequences -autoimmune. I now refuse to take pharmaceuticals, (obviously within reason) and try to have only the cleanest supplies in my home. While I can't yet afford organic, I avoid all inflammatory foods and for sure never touch white flour sugar. Use diaphragm and VCF after babies.

No way would I take any covid pharmaceutical product whether it's a vaccine or not. Every prescription is poison and I think long and hard before considering putting it in my body. I don't care if I won't be able to travel or work in certain fields. My health comes first and I am just not willing to risk being a functional human being by willingly injecting something into my body.

If public health was really the concern here we'd see a lot more "make sure to get lots of vegetables, exercise and plenty Vit D" and way less of "stay home, keep a filthy mask on your face and buy my product"

Yeah, you lost me at "every prescription is poison..."
I think most of us either know someone or are someone who would be dead without antibiotics... just as an example.
Also:
1) no amount of vegetables, exercise and Vitamin D will prevent you from CATCHING a contagious disease (they will possibly help your body fight it) hence the advice to stay home
2) why are you wearing a filthy mask? CDC certainly doesn't recommend that
3) no reputable public health organization is telling anyone to buy a product to prevent/cure covid. That IS in fact the sign of a charlatan & most often comes from... that's right, the "natural minded".