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Forum
-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
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amother
Floralwhite
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 Wed, Jan 06 2021, 3:53 am
| amother [ Emerald ] wrote: | | There's so much more to being a committed jew than just knowing about the Yomim Tovim and Parsha. There's Halachos, Hashkafos, Minhagim etc that aren't learned through osmosis. The immersiveness of a jewish education goes so much further than having a surface level understanding of how to be a traditional Jew. |
This. OP, do you think you could swing sending kids to a religious sleepaway camp?
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emma07
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 3:58 am
| LovesHashem wrote: | | Didn't read the thread but this. Like your kid may be taught in lower grades it it's okay to have two moms or dads and you can change your gender if you'd like. | they do not teach that in school in the lower grades
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amother
Mint
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 4:05 am
yes they do
they are starting "sx ed" earlier and earlier
think kindergarten
the tuition issue is huge and wish there was an easier answer
public school is not it
immorethanamother is right I know families with kids in ps and people who teach in ps and kids who came out of ps who are afraid to voice their views in school since "not pc enough" ie more traditional and by traditional I do not mean frum or even "conservative"
We know kids who went through a conservative day school education and then public ps and college and the results typically are not what you would want for your kids -- nice kids wonderful families I like them but not where I want my kids to be holding frumkeit wise not even close
and socially -- do you know what it means to cut your kids off socially from extracurriculars and almost everyone if not everyone they see every day in school socially? not let your kids "date" and "experiment" which generally starts very early in these circles
take a walk through a school, elementary , middle school, high school...make sure to check out the gym class too and lunchroom and recess, take a look at a year book for starters though that won't substitute for hearing what goes on in and out of the classrooms and on social media
if you think kids especially teens tend to understand let alone appreciate this um nope
its a real set up unfortunately
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amother
Slategray
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 4:31 am
| #BestBubby wrote: | OP has a choice.
If there is a will there is a way.
OP is uncertain if making sacrifices for Yeshiva is worth it. |
Oh stop with this martyrdom. I mean, continue, so you can feel better
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amother
Slategray
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 4:33 am
Emma, your kids seem to be young. Get back to us when they're in middle school.
Of course, if half the kids in their classes are from frum families, it could work. Otherwise, not really.
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amother
Mint
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 5:10 am
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scary because even with a "garin" which would help they are bombarded with cultural and social messages all day long ...and exposure R"L. And by exposure I do not mean to contrast with being in a bubble.
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avrahamama
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 6:45 am
| amother [ Slategray ] wrote: | Emma, your kids seem to be young. Get back to us when they're in middle school.
Of course, if half the kids in their classes are from frum families, it could work. Otherwise, not really. |
It only works if the parents are extremely vigilant. Very very very vigilant. Talking to their children constantly. Finding out exactly what the teacher is teaching at any moment. What short story. What little cartoon. What snacks they're distributing. Is there a child of gay marriage in the class.
Did I tell you about the time in 1st grade that I went to Y camp and had a ham and cheese sandwich? My bunkmate traded her lunch with me. I had no clue. If my mom she would have been heartbroken.
You have to wake up every morning and drill your children.
s-xual exploration happens YOUNG for kids in secular world. Like barely middle school.
If you're going to do it have a plan for any eventuality. Wake up every morning and remind your child of the literal basics.
Also knowing "right from wrong" doesn't mean knowing the Torah application of how to live. A secular right from wrong is currently very different from Torah aligned values. So you can't say my kids know right and wrong. You have to be able to say my kids are growing in their application of Torah aligned values. Without environment it's hard to facilitate that.
So OP if you're planning on sticking to Public school. Be very very very vigilant. Have a plan for everything. Literally look at a school calendar and break down the school events and how your kids will participate. Look at the school and PTA newsletters to get a feel for what they're culturally going to open your kids to and be prepared for how you want to deal with it. Decide how you will handle playdates with classmates of different value systems.
Dont say "oh well this is my lot in life" and fall into it.
Say "this is what I think we have to do. But I can try my best to fortify my children"
And hatzlacha.
But really may you see a yeshua that will help you send your Jewish neshamot to a good yeshiva that will nourish their neshamot and be mechazek you a d your husband as well.
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amother
Forestgreen
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 6:59 am
do the risks outweigh the benefits?
Where do they have a better chance of staying frum?
Especially if their father is OTD and neither parent is so interested in yeshiva education.
OP, you have to really think about the differences in frum and public schools.
Another anecdote:
I grew up in Beverly Hills, BT parents, went to regular frum school.
when I was young, the old lady next door died, and new neighbors moved in.
They were traditional. Wouldn't drive on shabbos, walked to shul...
Sent their four kids to Hillel (very MO elementary).
Then when it came to high school, they sent to Beverly Hills High. An excellent school, lots of Jews, etc.
Soon after their oldest sons started to drive on shabbos.
Within a few years, the mother was driving in shabbos.
Within ten years of when they moved in, you would never have known the family was ever shomer shabbos.
It was sad to watch a family leave yiddishkeit behind.
(If you want to ask why my family couldn't help, there was a culture and language barrier. Ppl who live in BH/LA will get what I mean.)
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TwinsMommy
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 7:01 am
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my twins are in middle school. My daughter is saying it's a shame she can't go to prom when she's in high school, but she knows 100% that from the get go she's not been going to the elementary/middle school mixed dances. She talks about her classmates starting to date, but we discuss that she won't be doing that and why. She even has a friend who is trans---- she's accepting of it and respectful of her friend and knows that's not shayach to us as frum Jews. It's not SIMPLE or EASY but totally do-able.
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amother
Taupe
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 7:15 am
Some of the comments about public school here really make me laugh. Zex ed in kindergarten? Seriously? Are you trying to scare people or do you actually believe that?
FWIW, here's my experience from 5-6 years ago. I went to public school after being bullied in Jewish schools. A sibling who wanted a more academic experience (AP classes) followed me. And we both had very positive experience in our local public school - wonderful education, involved teachers, and a great group of friends. This wasn't any sort of top tier magnet public school, just a standard neighborhood public school. I wouldn't hesitate to send my kids there when the time comes.
There are many good reasons to choose Jewish education, but it's possible to point them out without fear-mongering and/or insulting other people's choices.
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Chickensoupprof
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 7:28 am
Here some background information about me:
I shouldn't be religious. It's basically ridiculous that I have a kosher household, cover my hair and everything. My maternal grandmother intermarried, my mom, intermarried as well, grow up in Cuijk (Netherlands look it up) there was almost no Jewish life in my youth somewhere a menorah in the corner but we had a menorah because it was Jewish, didn't even celebrate Chanukkah sometimes we went to a Pesach seder when we got invited by an Israeli family in the same village. So I went to a non-religious-affiliated school, a catholic minded high school for 6 years, yes there was Xmas but we didn't talk about Yoske. I knew the story about Yoske when I was 12. My dad who is from a catholic family is a diehard atheist so he won't tell me. Yet I became religious and when I will have a baby I will send him/her/them to a Jewish school.
And yes, there were children in my high school with boyfriends and I had a trans as a friend and I had gay guys as best friends basically because I was awkward. There were no other Jewish basically in Nijmegen and here is the other side, I felt something with Yiddishkeit as a teen and I got angry when people would say ''filthy Jew'' or ''GAS'' to me. Won't have happened in a Jewish school, but maybe I was still very ASD that no one befriended me in a Bais Yakov.
So... If there are already frum Jewish kids in school, it's good I know from few frum people in the Netherlands who went to a public school and remained frum one became a rov here , and I went all public I had a minor in gender studies in university and I became frum. School is formative of course, but it's not the thing that will keep you frum or make your frum IMHO. Frum people who live outside of Amsterdam get Jewish lessons, go to camps, yeshivah for one year etc... I got frum because I loved learning about yiddishkeit, because it felt right for me it suited me. It filled in a hole I wasn't aware. It was not about the school or anything else. It was because I felt in love with yiddishkeit.
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amother
Mint
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 7:42 am
Glad it worked for you
No fearmongering- some curricula vary from state to state and locale to locale
No need to mock that which you do not know if your own experience differs
Though yes it beggars belief and wish it were not true
Hs is the worst and every year more exposure to heavy drinking sx and drugs not to mention anti religion
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amother
Bisque
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 7:42 am
| mirror wrote: | | You can get free tuition if you move to South Bend, Indiana, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Cincinatti, Ohio, Cleveland, Ohio. And if you're willing to move to Philadephia, Pennsylvania, their tuition is very cheap and subsidized by the local Chevra Kadisha. |
Wait, what? I live in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Can you tell me more about this? Sounds interesting.
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amother
Forestgreen
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 7:58 am
| amother [ Taupe ] wrote: | Some of the comments about public school here really make me laugh. Zex ed in kindergarten? Seriously? Are you trying to scare people or do you actually believe that?
FWIW, here's my experience from 5-6 years ago. I went to public school after being bullied in Jewish schools. A sibling who wanted a more academic experience (AP classes) followed me. And we both had very positive experience in our local public school - wonderful education, involved teachers, and a great group of friends. This wasn't any sort of top tier magnet public school, just a standard neighborhood public school. I wouldn't hesitate to send my kids there when the time comes.
There are many good reasons to choose Jewish education, but it's possible to point them out without fear-mongering and/or insulting other people's choices. |
Sounds like you went to frum elementary.
Were either of your parents otd?
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amother
Wine
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 8:00 am
tuition is NOT automatically free in Cincinnati, Cleveland... we have vouchers. If you earn under a certain amount than the school can't charge the rest. Housing in Cincinnati is very hard to find right now.
I believe OP said she's stuck where she is for a few more years due to visas...
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HakarasHatov
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 8:04 am
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I would say look into a state that has school vouchers like Ohio. You can get a good chunk or all of the tuition paid by the state depending on the school.
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amother
Lilac
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 8:06 am
| HakarasHatov wrote: | | I would say look into a state that has school vouchers like Ohio. You can get a good chunk or all of the tuition paid by the state depending on the school. |
Also, in Cleveland schools are pretty accommodating. I know for sure HAC works with you so you pay what you can. A huge percentage of people are getting tuition reductions.
This is on top of the vouchers program.
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amother
Aubergine
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 8:10 am
| amother [ Bisque ] wrote: | | Wait, what? I live in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Can you tell me more about this? Sounds interesting. |
Just to clarify regarding the Ohio communities, we do NOT have blanket free tuition for all. The voucher amount is $4650 for K-8, and tuitions in Ohio are more than that. However, under the voucher program, schools cannot charge any additional tuition if the student's family income is sufficiently low. Many frum families therefore qualify to pay only the voucher. This is where the "free tuition" impression comes from. But higher earning families can be charged additional tuition and will be unless they get a discount from the school (which many do).
Currently, I believe a family must earn less than 200% of the Federal Poverty Guidelines to get the "free tuition."
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amother
Aubergine
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 8:12 am
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I believe OP said she cannot move for 5-7 years due to visa requirements.
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HakarasHatov
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Wed, Jan 06 2021, 8:18 am
| amother [ Aubergine ] wrote: | Just to clarify regarding the Ohio communities, we do NOT have blanket free tuition for all. The voucher amount is $4650 for K-8, and tuitions in Ohio are more than that. However, under the voucher program, schools cannot charge any additional tuition if the student's family income is sufficiently low. Many frum families therefore qualify to pay only the voucher. This is where the "free tuition" impression comes from. But higher earning families can be charged additional tuition and will be unless they get a discount from the school (which many do).
Currently, I believe a family must earn less than 200% of the Federal Poverty Guidelines to get the "free tuition." |
I think Cincinnati Day school tries to keep tuition less than the voucher amount, at least thats how it was several years ago
Last edited by HakarasHatov on Wed, Jan 06 2021, 8:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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