Why would teacher do this?

amother

Pewter

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 9:31 am

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

Anyway as a teacher, I can state this is an old fashioned approach. The current approach (and has been for at least 5 years) is growth mindset and progress monitoring. It's not about getting a high score in itself it's about showing you grew from your starting point. It doesn't mean much if a high level student got an perfect score but didn't increase their personal level.
Actually a lower student who grows more, say from 50% to 65% can end up with a higher overall grade in a progress report than a high one who maintains a 95% with no growth or just grows by 1 or 2 points.
What can you do, most frum schools are behind the times. I'm pretty sure than in 5 years time they will have caught up and won't be espousing these sorts of methods anymore. Wait and see!

What do report cards look like under this system?

It sounds like understanding/mastery of the underlying subject is irrelevant.

amother

Ruby

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 9:35 am

I was one of those that never bothered studying in school and usually averaged 80. I was smart enough not to need to study. Admittedly that did not stand me in good stead as I went onto higher education and I did need to start putting in the work. Funny story I remember is getting in the 70s on a test and the teaching praising me for my hard work and something about how hard I obviously studied. I couldn't tell her I hadn't cracked open a book for it.
I have no issue with praise for good marks. I just don't think it should be announced to the class. Especially if it's always the same few students. Much more meaningful when it comes to any sort of praise is specific praise. 'I liked how you answered that question. You really thought through your answer'. This can be written on the test paper.

amother

Mustard

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 9:38 am

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

What do report cards look like under this system?

It sounds like understanding/mastery of the underlying subject is irrelevant.

No, it's not irrelevant. Take a guided reading level for example. If you grow 5 levels but are still behind grade level you have still made more progress than a student who started the year at a high level but stayed stagnant or barely grew. It's about growth and challenging students at their level. Not letting high kids just stay where they are. It's about accountability.
Report cards chart this growth accordingly.

amother

Sapphire

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 9:52 am

I didn't read through the whole thread, only the first page. But, as a mother of a child who has got 100% in every single test since the beginning of the year, I would hate if it were announced. He now has a very difficult time when weakness are pointed out, e.g. once his rebbe made him daven again because he was either davening very quietly/quickly or not davening at all and he could not handle the criticism. He refused to go to school the following day. He expects perfectionism in every aspect. If his 100% grades were pointed out in front of the whole grade, I am sure this would be way worse.

Getting good grades does not make you a good person and it also only highlights the strength of a small group of children. Praising each child for what they bring to the class is much healthier. I.e. praising the children who participate and ask questions, the next week/day praising those that are looking out for their friends, the following week/day, those that are being respectful, those that are being on time, those that are excited to learn... etc.

amother

Rose

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 10:19 am

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

There's your problem built right there into the system.
It's great that your system allows you to mark the achievement of the student who improved and went from a 50% to a 65%. You're guessing (because you can't know that for sure) that the 15% improvement was a result of effort and you want to let the student know you appreciate how hard she tried.
The 95% student can't improve more than 5% no matter how hard she tries, and since achieving perfection (by moving up to 100%) is harder than the 5% gain between 60% and 65% it's far less likely she'll be able to show more than a one or two per cent improvement. The result being that you ignore this student's accomplishments?
If you're a very good teacher with time to spend with each student you might know if the 95% student is exceptionally gifted, or working exceptionally hard, or falls somewhere in between- gifted and working hard, which is the most likely suggestion. If you're a good teacher with a class of close to thirty students you probably don't know just how much effort is going into her 95's. Your method leaves no room to show any appreciation for her efforts. Even if she was gifted with superior grey matter, the 95 student is probably forgoing some recreational activity or downtime to focus on her studies.
I understand you want to acknowledge the efforts of the less brilliant students but you don't want to overlook the accomplishments of the 95% student either.
A good teacher will figure out how to help each student achieve her fullest potential and grow emotionally and intellectually in the process. The new method you're describing honestly sounds a little scary.

amother

Pewter

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 10:39 am

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

If there is such a thing as "grade level" than the child who is at "grade level" shouldn't be receiving a poor grade.

Maybe things are different now. I never saw letter grades on a report card until middle school.

amother

Mustard

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 10:43 am

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

Our whole method of instruction is based on meeting students' individual needs. We do a lot of small group teaching (after doing assessments to find their exact level) rather than whole class teaching for the entire class, the whole class long.
As I said, this is the current method. There is a lot of research to back it up. I understand it seems weird if you haven't been exposed to these ideas but yes the traditional methods you are advocating are outdated. You can just read any educational journal from the past few years to see.

amother

Rose

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 10:47 am

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

Small group teaching following individual assessments sounds wonderful. I don't see that happening anytime soon in our own underfunded overcrowded schools. If and when it does, your methods can be implemented without harm.

amother

Pewter

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 10:57 am

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

Pedagogical methods come and go. There is no one 'current' method.

Chayalle

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 11:01 am

I never did a stitch of work in elementary school, and I got top grades. I think it's a bad practice to announce marks and who got the highest. It has absolutely no reflection on the effort that went in. And does nothing to better the student.

The only time I would maybe do that as a teacher (I'm not a teacher) would be if a particular student really needed it, and had put in effort to boost her grade - I could see saying something like "well done" to her when handing back her test.

amother

Mustard

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 11:18 am

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

Pedagogical methods come and go. There is no one 'current' method.

Sure it's the pendulum model. But some last for quite awhile. And some fall by the wayside, never to return. Announcing grades aloud is one of them. Makes me think of a class from the 1950s or earlier. It was already outdated by the 80s when I was in a somewhat old fashioned for the times BY.
I just didn't realize some frum schools were still such dinosaurs in this respect.

SixOfWands

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 11:39 am

In my experience, a very smart kid who doesn't do a lick of work isn't going to get the top grades on a regular basis. They'll usually be the solid B student. Especially after 3rd grade, where things are no longer extremely basic.

You can assume that the kids with stellar grades are studying and doing the work.

Why are they constantly being put down here?

"Oh, the girl with good grades probably didn't even bother to study." Or maybe they didn't spend 2 hours playing because they "needed the break," but rather cared more about their grades.

"They don't have good middos." No, anyone who accuses a kid of not having good middos just because she does good in school is the one lacking in middos.

Why can't we acknowledge and appreciate the kid who does well in school. Not every day. But every once in a while. The same way that the kid who wins the race gets a trophy, and the one who sings best gets the solo in the school play, while the awkward kid who can't hold a tune plays a tree.

Why do we need to tell the kids who do best that they should tone it down a little, because we need to celebrate the kid who get a C, who is just as likely to be phoning it in as she is to be working hard. Like the Rainbow Fish -- you shouldn't be happy with your own talents, you should strive to me mediocre and like everyone else.

And no, no one needs to know if Malka got a 45 or an 85, although the teacher can certainly tell Malka how proud she is of her improvement. But there's nothing wrong with saying Ruti got a 100 on her history exam, great job.