Invitations: How to address non-binary invitees

Fuchsia

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:26 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

Just write their name if you want to be nice. Otherwise I would still write Ms. or whatever. The torah doesn’t have a name for “I decided I am a man”.

But the Torah does require us to be sensitive and kind to another person so why would it be so difficult to just do that.

Writing Ms. deliberately is just cruel. Does the Torah have a name for that?

notshanarishona

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:31 pm

It’s not being kind to encourage aveiros at worse or shtuyot at best. Being kind is continuing the relationship and hoping to bring the person to do teshuva. Writing just her name is not at all offensive.
Anyone who starts addressing people as MX or IT or person with non gender specific words belongs in the loony bin with nancy pelosi.

Fuchsia

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:32 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

Wow.

I will refrain from saying where the people who talk like this belong, and with whom.

amother

Cerulean

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:37 pm

Fuchsia wrote:

Wow.

I will refrain from saying where the people who talk like this belong, and with whom.

People who talk like this are frum torah observant people. As jews, we shouldn't be acknowledging, encouraging, or accepting such people. It's against the torah. People that decide to identify something other than what hashem created them are crazy people. It's a new fad that we shouldn't be acknowledging or encouraging. I'd address their invite with the title who they really are, not what they decided to be. Mr. for a man, Miss for a women.
If someone decides to identify as a cat one day, they won't be a cat, no matter what they claim to be. We don't get to decide what to identify as, we are what hashem created us to be. These people are mentally ill idiots.

allthingsblue

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:40 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

People who talk like this as frum torah observant people. As jews, we shouldn't be acknowledging, encouraging, or accepting such people. It's against the torah. People that decide to identify something other than what hashem created them are crazy people. It's a new fad that we shouldn't be acknowledging or encouraging. I'd address their invite with the title who they really are, not what they decided to be. Mr. for a man, Miss for a women.
If someone decides to identify as a cat one day, they won't be a cat, no matter what they claim to me. We don't get to decide what to identify as, we are what hashem created us to be. These people are mentally ill idiots.

Did you ask a rav? You might be very surprised.

Your post is not in line with torah at all. Mentally ill people are sick, not idiots. Being confrontational won't win anyone over to return to torah. Being kind may well inspire people to return.

Last edited by allthingsblue on Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

Fuchsia

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:41 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

Show me where it says in the Torah that a man must be addressed as Mr and a woman must be addressed as Ms.

These vile attitudes is why we have a religion crisis in our communities. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. I am in absolute shock that someone would advocate this deliberate cruelty on another human being in the (false) name of religion. I have no doubt that Hashem is not on your side in this.

amother

Cerulean

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:42 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

Did you ask a rav? You might be very surprised.

I don't need a Rav to tell me that it's against the torah. I don't need a Rav to tell me that people that decide to identify as something they aren't are normal people.

Fuchsia

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:44 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

I don't need a Rav to tell me that it's against the torah. I don't need a Rav to tell me that people that decide to identify as something they aren't are normal people.

You need a rav to get all sorts of heterim on perfectly permissible things, but you don’t need a rav to discuss this very complicated halacha with? I see where your priorities lie and they are wrong.

allthingsblue

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:44 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

I don't need a Rav to tell me that it's against the torah. I don't need a Rav to tell me that people that decide to identify as something they aren't are normal people.

Please see my edited post. It's a complicated topic and you'd be very surprised. Don't assume you know everything.

amother

Cerulean

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:45 pm

Fuchsia wrote:

A man doesn't have to be addressed as Mr and a women doesn't have to be addressed as Mrs. But 1 person will always stay 1 person and will never become a they, no matter what this person thinks or decides. You can't decide one day to "identify" as someone/something you aren't and expect others to respect and accept it and not laugh you in the face. You want to be crazy, go ahead. But don't expect everyone to be crazy along with you and accept this shtus that went into your head.
It's so sad how this disgusting new trend is seeping into the frum world and frum people actually think this is a normal thing to do.

Fox

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:46 pm

Fuchsia wrote:

I'm pretty sure the Torah would also not condone anyone getting bent out of shape because his/her title wasn't precisely to his/her liking.

Or, for that matter, getting bent out of shape because he/she had adopted some fad that wasn't being accommodated to his/her liking.

Fuchsia

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:46 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

So why would you care how someone is addressed on an envelope? If the OP wants to be kind and sensitive to another person, what is your opposition to that?

Fuchsia

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:49 pm

Fox wrote:

I’m not surprised at this comment. It’s not like I would expect any drop of understanding or kindness.

amother

Cerulean

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:53 pm

Fuchsia wrote:

So why would you care how someone is addressed on an envelope? If the OP wants to be kind and sensitive to another person, what is your opposition to that?

Because it shows that she's acknowledging and accepting of this disgusting crazy trend. As frum Jews we shouldn't show acceptance to or even acknowledge this shtus.

Fox

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:56 pm

Fuchsia wrote:

I’m not surprised at this comment. It’s not like I would expect any drop of understanding or kindness.

Understanding of what? Kindness regarding what?

Listen, I regularly get invitations addressed to "Mrs. Chana Fox," which I happen to loathe, but I don't expect every baal simcha or organization to make extraordinary efforts to accommodate me. My ego isn't that inflated.

People who take great umbrage at being misaddressed usually have more problems than changing a name on an envelope will correct.

finprof

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 8:58 pm

Honestly can't we just drop the whole formal title BS in this day in age? Is it Mrs DH or do I "out rank my husband" because I have a PhD...seriously? (Yes, this was an actual conversation...) Who cares? True equality would be calling all of us by our names not titles!

amother

Mon, Jan 18 2021, 9:22 pm

finprof wrote:

despite my snarky comment, before this gets locked, I just want to say how amazing you are for asking this question!

Thank you so much for the kind words!