Is dropping community externals considered lowering standard

amother

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 6:02 pm

When at my parents in law's house for a shabbos meal, I casually mentioned that DH was so hot in the warm weather and couldn't think of wearing the whole chassidish garb. I suggested that he should leave his shtreimel at home so he's more comfortable. And that's what he did.

MIL didn't approve and reprimanded me saying 'a wife should always encourage a husband to grow in Yiddishkeit. You did the opposite by supporting him in lowering his standards...'

I am so disturbed by this.

Wearing a shtreimel is not a halachic obligation. Its what we do in our community. We can compare it to a frak that a yeshivish Torahdiger man might wear. If one tends to wear these things and stops, is it considered lowering ones standards?

Most Jewish communities have a dress code and when someone deviates from that, it's often looked down upon as if the person is doing less in other areas of Yiddishkeit.

How much truths is there to my MIL's statement ?

amother

Firebrick

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 6:53 pm

In my community it is definitely considering lowering ones standards to take off a shtreimel.
My husband wears one. And hates it. For over 20 years already he is talking about taking it off. But he is scared it will give his father a heart attack.
So now that we moved away, he still wears it but only when he must. Like Friday night. But he doesn’t wear it Shabbos day or for shalash Seudos

amother

Turquoise

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 7:13 pm

There are times dh does x wear his shtreimel. If he is wearing his tallis, if we are going for a walk he wears the beketcha w/o the shtreimel. , after making hamotzi at the table he takes shtremel and beketcha off. I told my mil years ago - you try sitting with all that at the table.

Or Are you asking about totally changing levush? That is a different story. But you need to do what both of you need to do.

amother

Sapphire

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 7:18 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I guess im very lucky that my community does not have any specific levush.

amother

Babyblue

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 7:42 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It's not so much that the communities have a dress code. It's rather that these respective communities define their yiddishkeit with their clothing & externals. So if you drop any part of it, its considered 'lowering your standard'.

It is sad, but true.

leah233

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 8:02 pm

Depends on the general reason for his stopping to wear it.

If your DH feels this is not halacha and the sacrifice it requires is too much for him and may end coming at the expense of things more important then your suggestion does not contradict supporting his growing in Yiddiskeit .

If it is a result of general growing apathy to community standards it is more of an issue of concern. You are not his masgiach and should not stop him but encouraging may not be the right thing either.

Being that it sounds like it was more you than him who came up with this decision, ask yourself if your MIL is correct in general with her comment

Last edited by leah233 on Sat, Feb 13 2021, 8:09 pm; edited 3 times in total

groisamomma

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 8:07 pm

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

I guess im very lucky that my community does not have any specific levush.

Why the smugness?

OP, you don't have to hear everything. Nod, smile, and move on. She raised him and expects you to fix him up? If she has taynos she can take it up with him.

amother

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 8:42 pm

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

Unless you're a newlywed and aren't very familiar with your mil, that comment doesn't sound very "casual" to me. It sounds like you were provoking her, and she responded in kind.

Provoking? Lol you don't know my Mil. She gives mussar right left and center... Nothing to do with how's she's spoken to.

Just to make it clear, I didn't tell DH NEVER to wear his shtreimel again, I suggested he leave it at home while we walk round the corner to his parents which was already after davening.

He has already done this plenty in the past but maybe not when eating at his parents. If I remember correctly, she might have mentioned it and I just happily told her the circumstances why he did it.

naturalmom5

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 8:57 pm

im reminded of a story

I was in Miami in 19 90 in Feb when my friend was dating
Then again in july for wedding

There was a Rebbe who came every winter when it was 70s and wore his streiml

He came in July when I was there and it was 105

Miami Beach hatzala advised him not to wear Streiml
He said henever went on street without it

That Shabbos he fainted of heat stroke , many Hatzola vehicles came to assist

After that many of of the local Rabbonim said in their sermons , there was massive Chilul Shabbos but at least he wore his streiml

amother

Gold

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 9:06 pm

I dk about shtreimel I'm not chassidish.
But if a boy only wears yeshivish clothing-white shirt,black pants and hat and suddenly decides to wear colored shirt casual pants and no hat it usually comes with lowering their standard in yiddishkeit.
If a girl starts wearing legs say denim skirt which she previously didn't wear , there's nothing wrong halachikly but she's lowering her standards by wearing something she wasn't wearing before.

amother

Brown

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 9:06 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

In the 1990s the shtreimels were tiny and not very heavy.

amother

Coffee

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 9:10 pm

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

How is a denim skirts lowering standards?

leah233

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 9:14 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

Wow! Talk about a judgmental community. "Many" rabbis have to make a point of knocking someone for mistakenly doing something I sure none of their congregants would consider doing in the first place.

In any case these rabbis don't seem correct. There wasn't massive Chilul Shabbos. There was a massive effort to prevent pikuach nefesh that allowed Chillul Shabbos.

small bean

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 9:22 pm

I don't think it's always that way. My husband always thought the yeshiva dresscode was stupid. I hate washing white shirts. He stopped wearing them. He's just as frum as before, but we happily don't fit in a box or care how people define us.

I think his parents would be very upset if they knew he doesn't wear white shirts. Fortunately, we never see them so it doesn't matter.

silverlining3

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 9:36 pm

Since some people consider it lowering standards my husband walks without shtreimel but holds it, in shtreimel box. And then puts in on once arriving. Saves aggravation on both ends Smile

But I don't like your mil commenting this.