Is dropping community externals considered lowering standard

amother

Indigo

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 9:43 pm

My husband wears a streimel and is a proud chossid. That said it is uncomfortable in the heat so he’ll carry it in it’s box when we are walking outside in the summer. None of our parents mind and my in-laws are ultra. Most have no problem wearing it at the meal and nothing happens if you take it off after a few minutes because you are not comfy . Normal people don’t get upset if you take it off. Let’s not make this an anti chassid rant here and imply that this is some barbaric torture device that you are forced to wear for hours despite the discomfort

amother

Indigo

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 9:45 pm

silverlining3 wrote:

Since some people consider it lowering standards my husband walks without shtreimel but holds it, in shtreimel box. And then puts in on once arriving. Saves aggravation on both ends Smile

But I don't like your mil commenting this.

this. This issue is not about about the Streimal but rather about the mother in law commenting where she shouldn’t and the OP asking for trouble when she could have just made the effort to bring it along and knew what her mil is all about

amother

Peach

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 9:56 pm

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

I dk about shtreimel I'm not chassidish.
But if a boy only wears yeshivish clothing-white shirt,black pants and hat and suddenly decides to wear colored shirt casual pants and no hat it usually comes with lowering their standard in yiddishkeit.
If a girl starts wearing legs say denim skirt which she previously didn't wear , there's nothing wrong halachikly but she's lowering her standards by wearing something she wasn't wearing before.

What’s lowering about it? Unless it’s a denim miniskirt, that sounds like a lateral move to me.

amother

Aubergine

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 10:07 pm

OP, I don't think you should be the one to tell DH to take it off. If he's hot he can take it off without you telling him. I don't think it's right coming from you especially while others are around to hear you say it.
DH doesn't wear a shtreimel shabbos morning when he goes to shul but wears it at home for the meal.

amother

Aubergine

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 10:08 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

What’s lowering about it? Unless it’s a denim miniskirt, that sounds like a lateral move to me.

In the communities where wearing denim is a no no, it's considered lowering your standards to wear denim.

groisamomma

Sat, Feb 13 2021, 11:11 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

After that many of of the local Rabbonim said in their sermons , there was massive Chilul Shabbos but at least he wore his streiml

Nah, that last part disparaging all the local rabbis didn't happen. Good fantasy, though.

amother

Gold

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 12:03 am

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

What’s lowering about it? Unless it’s a denim miniskirt, that sounds like a lateral move to me.

In some frum communities "denim" is not worn because that's what all non jews wear every day. It's too casual. Even if skirt is 100% tzniusdik.
(Did you ever see a yeshivish rebetzin wearing a denim skirt? Wink

)

amother

Peach

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 12:06 am

amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:

In the communities where wearing denim is a no no, it's considered lowering your standards to wear denim.

It’s against the community dress code it it’s not actually lowering standards.

amother

Dodgerblue

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 12:09 am

I personally find it distasteful to consider working clothes or similar styles to be "lowering standards". It seems elitist and arrogant.

amother

Coffee

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 12:09 am

amother [ Gold ] wrote:

In some frum communities "denim" is not worn because that's what all non jews wear every day. It's too casual. Even if skirt is 100% tzniusdik.
)

I work in a non Jewish workplace, and no, "all non Jews" do not wear denim every day.
Anyway, what does being casual have to do with lower religious standards? Wearing a snood is casual. So is wearing sneakers or a long stretchy skirt. Plenty of very frum people wear those, even if your average yeshivish rebbetzin doesn't. The whole denim thing is so arbitrary.

amother

Chartreuse

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 12:11 am

amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:

I personally find it distasteful to consider working clothes or similar styles to be "lowering standards". It seems elitist and arrogant.

And what happened to being nonjudgemental about other sects of yiddishkeit? Do you think they should judge you on what YOU wear or don't wear?

amother

Jetblack

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 12:11 am

People who always wear long sleeves and stockings would not consider wearing short sleeves or no socks in the very hot summer.
Would you consider lowering your standard in the heat? Some communities are ok with short sleeves and no stockings, but depends on what is done by you. Why do you think it’s ok for your husband? That is part of his mesorah and what is considered the standard in his community.

amother

Coffee

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 12:12 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

And what happened to being nonjudgemental about other sects of yiddishkeit? Do you think they should judge you on what YOU wear or don't wear?

Obviously she is not into anybody judging. That's her whole point.

amother

Aubergine

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 12:13 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

im reminded of a story

I was in Miami in 19 90 in Feb when my friend was dating
Then again in july for wedding

There was a Rebbe who came every winter when it was 70s and wore his streiml

He came in July when I was there and it was 105

Miami Beach hatzala advised him not to wear Streiml
He said henever went on street without it

That Shabbos he fainted of heat stroke , many Hatzola vehicles came to assist

After that many of of the local Rabbonim said in their sermons , there was massive Chilul Shabbos but at least he wore his streiml

I do not believe this story at all. In the real heat a shtreimel doesn't make much of a difference and no one has ever fainted from wearing chassidish garb. Thousands upon thousands of men wear chassidish garb in the heat, you don't see men fainting.
And hatzolah going to a call on shabbos is NEVER chillul shabbos, even if nothing happened.
Nice try to mock Chassidim.

Notsobusy

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 1:03 am

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

People who only wear long sleeves or stockings do so because they consider that the halacha. So yes, wearing short sleeves or no socks is considered lowering your standards and doing something against halacha. Nobody thinks it's halacha to wear a shtriemel, therefore it's not a halachick issue, it's only a community issue.

Proudly Right

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 1:23 am

leah233 wrote:

Wow! Talk about a judgmental community. "Many" rabbis have to make a point of knocking someone for mistakenly doing something I sure none of their congregants would consider doing in the first place.

In any case these rabbis don't seem correct. There wasn't massive Chilul Shabbos. There was a massive effort to prevent pikuach nefesh that allowed Chillul Shabbos.

THIS!

I was thinking to respond to the post similar to what you wrote but then I realized I don't accept and believe the LH that the Rabbonim really ever said such things.

Next we"ll hear that a woman was advised not to wear her stockings and long sleeves in the Miami heat and that it's her fault for feeling so stifled! Mad

amother

Navy

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 1:26 am

I don't understand. Is this for taking off his shtreimel, period, or just to take it off at certain times.
We are proudly Chassidish but we don't wear shtreimels when eating or taking a walk. My husband wears it to shul, for making Kiddush , for family Simchas etc.
There's a huge difference between the two.

Proudly Right

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 1:30 am

amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

Actually, interestingly dh mentioned to me that when the Satmar Rebbe (Wburg) visited our city, he spoke about women walking out of the house wearing only a turban and ponjelo (robe). He explained as it should be only worn at home. On the street a woman should walk around the way s'past for a Yiddishe Tochter.. (for those who are familiar with the culture and shprach Very Happy

)

amother

Coffee

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 1:40 am

But, nobody would say the woman is showing that she is lowering her religious standard by walking outside in a turban. Not a good analogy.

champion

Sun, Feb 14 2021, 1:43 am

IMVHO certain fixations on externals in some cases are a distraction from authentically growing and serving Hashem. But only the person himself and perhaps his spouse (In an real caring and close relationship) can be a good judge on which behavior is considered a lowering of standard, simply practical living or an attempt to serve Hashem in a more truthful manner.