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Pesach Kashrut & Staying with non-frum parents.
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 6:02 pm
Hi, we have a family situation where we'll be stuck staying with my non-frum parents over Pesach (we have an infant, trying to get help, looking for housing in new city). I'm very nervous about how we're going to deal with the Pesach kashrut.

Currently, we have a workable kosher setup in my mom's kitchen. We have our own pots and pans and silverware. We have a dedicated kitchen countertop that we kashered that my parents know not to use. And we have an oven that we kashered (my mom only uses her toaster oven). And we make sure to airwash stuff so it doesn't touch the sink hot. They know not to mess with our stuff, etc.

This setup seems totally unworkable for Pesach, though. We'll have to put pesachdik stuff in their fridge; no point in cleaning the entire fridge because they'll just put chametz back in the fridge and there's no way ensure that out stuff is totally free from chametz. We can re-kasher our countertop and oven, but the entire kitchen won't be cleaned for pesach (and even if it is, they'll just chametz it up). There's just the possibility of chametz everywhere and anywhere, and there's no way to ensure chametz doesn't come into contact with out stuff.

Any ideas on how to handle? College kids who keep strict Pesach must have had non-Jewish / non-observant roommates. We can't be the first to ever deal with this.
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amother




Khaki
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 6:09 pm
Call your rav, ASAP. My first instinct is for you to set up your own kitchen in your room. Mini fridge, portable burners, new toaster oven, maybe a microwave. If you have to use their fridge, everything goes in fully bagged.
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 6:11 pm
Hi, I got married this past year a month before covid hit hard. I made pesach alone but it wasn't daunting to me as I am a BT and had been doing this for years.

When I was single it was really really challenging for me. Pesach made me a nervous wreck because I was always scared of chametz things getting into my dishes/counter top.

I spoke to a rav and he gave me guidelines to follow and I really tried my hardest and that's all that I could do...

Im sure you are in contact with a rav who is guiding you on the practical logistics?

Anyway, not so much practical advice, just commenting as I would like to follow along for advice too.
We'll be going to my parents for pesach again this year. We are sefardi though so the halachos in some areas a bit more lenient which makes it a bit easier for me....
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imasinger




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 6:17 pm
Definitely talk tomorrow your rav.

If your parents will lend you a room to be your "pesach kitchen", where you can clean and cover, set up a mini fridge, folding table as a counter, and microwave, toaster oven, and burners, that will help. Some of these things can be rented. You'll need a minimum of cookware, and can use paper/plastic. Ask about using a bathroom sink for water and washing.

Will you be in an area where you can get klp prepared food?
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tichellady




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 6:30 pm
This is a question for a rabbi. I’m sure there are leniencies to be relied on in your situation.
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amother




Copper
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 6:35 pm
You are not supposed to even see chametz on pesach. This sounds like a very bidieved situation. Are you sure you can’t find somewhere else to go for the week?
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amother




Copper
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 6:37 pm
Btw a lot of young couples go away for the whole pesach. So you can probably rent a cleaned for pesach apartment for the week, in a frum neighborhood.
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Rubber Ducky




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 6:40 pm
amother [ Copper ] wrote:
You are not supposed to even see chametz on pesach...

I think that's a chumra.

As others have suggested, a mini-fridge, folding table, hot plate, plata, and toaster oven sound like the best choice. And speak with a Rav who has experience with BT shailos like yours.
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chestnut




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 6:50 pm
amother [ Copper ] wrote:
You are not supposed to even see chametz on pesach.

Huh? So frum people who go on chol hamoed trips don't see non Jews eating pizza or food booths? Those who go to regular supermarkets put blindfolds when walking inside and might see boxes of pasta or bread? Or those of us working on chol hamoed and talking to a non Jewish coworker during lunch should promptly turn our back on them once they take out their sandwich?
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 7:00 pm
Thanks for all the good responses. Lots of good ideas all over the map, and it's getting me thinking. I know I need to ask the rav to approve whatever I come up with, but I wanted all the brainstorming on here. The rav knows halacha, but he might not thinking of every possible workaround that the collective wisdom of 100s of people on here might think of. Keep all the ideas coming!

amother [ Copper ] wrote:
You are not supposed to even see chametz on pesach. This sounds like a very bidieved situation. Are you sure you can’t find somewhere else to go for the week?


Do people really believe/keep these chumras? As a BT, keeping halacha is hard enough. Why make life miserable? As others have pointed out, how does this even work in practice? I love the post about blindfolds when I walk into a supermarket and see the pasta.
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amother




Mint
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 7:15 pm
seven days you shall eat unleavened cakes, and on the seventh day, there is a festival for the Lord. ושִׁבְעַ֥ת יָמִ֖ים תֹּאכַ֣ל מַצֹּ֑ת וּבַיּוֹם֙ הַשְּׁבִיעִ֔י חַ֖ג לַיהֹוָֽה:
7Unleavened cakes shall be eaten during the seven days, and no leaven shall be seen of yours [in your possession], and no leavening shall be seen of yours throughout all of your borders.
זמַצּוֹת֙ יֵֽאָכֵ֔ל אֵ֖ת שִׁבְעַ֣ת הַיָּמִ֑ים וְלֹא־יֵֽרָאֶ֨ה לְךָ֜ חָמֵ֗ץ וְלֹא־
From the torah. Not a chumra
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amother




Copper
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 7:20 pm
I think it’s different halachically seeing it in your own home and seeing it somewhere else, like passing by a bakery.
Regardless, I’ll maintain my point that this sounds very bedieved.
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amother




OP
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 7:22 pm
amother [ Mint ] wrote:
seven days you shall eat unleavened cakes, and on the seventh day, there is a festival for the Lord. ושִׁבְעַ֥ת יָמִ֖ים תֹּאכַ֣ל מַצֹּ֑ת וּבַיּוֹם֙ הַשְּׁבִיעִ֔י חַ֖ג לַיהֹוָֽה:
7Unleavened cakes shall be eaten during the seven days, and no leaven shall be seen of yours [in your possession], and no leavening shall be seen of yours throughout all of your borders.
זמַצּוֹת֙ יֵֽאָכֵ֔ל אֵ֖ת שִׁבְעַ֣ת הַיָּמִ֑ים וְלֹא־יֵֽרָאֶ֨ה לְךָ֜ חָמֵ֗ץ וְלֹא־
From the torah. Not a chumra


Obviously I'm not an expert, but do you have an authoritative source that this means you can't see chametz at the supermarket -- not that shouldn't see/own chametz in your home, your car, your purse, etc.?
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amother




Mint
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 7:25 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Obviously I'm not an expert, but do you have an authoritative source that this means you can't see chametz at the supermarket -- not that shouldn't see/own chametz in your home, your car, your purse, etc.?

Sorry for not clarifying
I was answering those who said it is a chumra in the house. Although I do know plenty of people who do not travel or go on trips during pesach for this reason
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amother




Azure
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 7:25 pm
To answer your question about seeing chometz-
Local Jewish groceries hang sheets over the chometz isles, and many people do not go to places where they can see or smell chometz on pesach, ex: Hershey chocolate factory, Crayola factory etc.

I am sure there are leneniencies in your case though.
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tichellady




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 7:40 pm
You can’t see chometz that you own but I think if you don’t own it, it’s a different story.
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amother




Pink
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 7:47 pm
I liked the idea of a short-term pesach rental in frum area.

Do you have a room to can turn into a mini makeshift kitchen? E.g. Basement laundry room- use the sink. But a set of two burners and a mini fridge and freezer?

I would not be comfortable sharing a chometzdik kitchen.
I assume your parents wouldn't be keen on you cleaning and kashering their kitchen, and seeking their chometz for a week.
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egam




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 7:51 pm
amother [ Mint ] wrote:
seven days you shall eat unleavened cakes, and on the seventh day, there is a festival for the Lord. ושִׁבְעַ֥ת יָמִ֖ים תֹּאכַ֣ל מַצֹּ֑ת וּבַיּוֹם֙ הַשְּׁבִיעִ֔י חַ֖ג לַיהֹוָֽה:
7Unleavened cakes shall be eaten during the seven days, and no leaven shall be seen of yours [in your possession], and no leavening shall be seen of yours throughout all of your borders.
זמַצּוֹת֙ יֵֽאָכֵ֔ל אֵ֖ת שִׁבְעַ֣ת הַיָּמִ֑ים וְלֹא־יֵֽרָאֶ֨ה לְךָ֜ חָמֵ֗ץ וְלֹא־
From the torah. Not a chumra


Bolded are the key words. The hometz the OP might see does not belong to her. It’s not in her possession.
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amother




Black
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 7:59 pm
It's also an issue to use any of their chametz products that they don't sell over pesach after pesach (e.g. a box of pasta).

Currently in similar situation to you. Looking into renting a hotel w/ kitchenette or a 2 bedroom villa for pesach. In total it'd probably be around 1-1.5k for the rental plus $500-1k for very basic supplies. Burner, pan, toaster oven, containers, grape juice (maybe a bottle or two of wine but otherwise the 2pk of extra large grape juice bottles from Costco), knives, peelers, paper and plastic ware, bedikas chametz kit, a bunch of basic food, and a premade seder plate from a Chabad house.
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andrea levy




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Feb 21 2021, 7:59 pm
amother [ Mint ] wrote:
seven days you shall eat unleavened cakes, and on the seventh day, there is a festival for the Lord. ושִׁבְעַ֥ת יָמִ֖ים תֹּאכַ֣ל מַצֹּ֑ת וּבַיּוֹם֙ הַשְּׁבִיעִ֔י חַ֖ג לַיהֹוָֽה:
7Unleavened cakes shall be eaten during the seven days, and no leaven shall be seen of yours [in your possession], and no leavening shall be seen of yours throughout all of your borders.
זמַצּוֹת֙ יֵֽאָכֵ֔ל אֵ֖ת שִׁבְעַ֣ת הַיָּמִ֑ים וְלֹא־יֵֽרָאֶ֨ה לְךָ֜ חָמֵ֗ץ וְלֹא־
From the torah. Not a chumra


You sell your own chametz. Her parents chametz is not hers. Chimera not Torah.
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